29 Sep
2014
29 Sep
'14
3:01 p.m.
Hi Caty,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
So I think is a good idea to provide the ability to create
wikis/spaces/page on their Indexes pages. In the case of Wiki Manager this
was removed in http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9490 but if we re-add it
we could standardize the creation of entities in their context (just like
we do it on ColorThemes WebHome or on on Blog.WebHome).
Exactly :-) I'm +1 for this.
But even if we make this improvement, I still would
want to have the
ability to create wikis/spaces/pages in the Add menu.
As I've said before, I don't agree with this. Though I might be ok to keep
the "Add space" action in there, with the improvements suggested by Edy, I
strongly believe that the "Create new wiki" feature shouldn't be there.
It's an infrequent action with strong consequences. It should be available
as a tool from the main wiki, but definitely not from every page. Again,
how often does any user create a new wiki? Even for a large organization,
it will be mostly admins, and it will happen maybe a couple times a week
after XWiki is launched internally.
So in the end we have an action that is performed by *very few people, a
handful of times*, and we put it on *every single page in the main wiki and
all sub-wikis*. I'm afraid that keeping all 3 actions in the same button is
consistency for consistency's sake, but it just doesn't match XWiki users'
behavior, nor their expectations.
Besides consistency, what is the rationale for having all 3 actions in one
place? How do you back up your reasoning with actual user behavior? In your
personal experience, how often do you use the "create wiki" button in its
current location?
IMO is not one way or the other (and I don't agree with the duplication
argument). One way of creating entries (the Add menu
way) is more generic,
while the other way (contextual form placement on the Homepages/Indexes) is
specific to the entity type.
I don't mind having more that one button for an action in specific cases.
But I don't think the "Create wiki" action is one of those cases.
Thanks,
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
makes
page/space/wiki/etc.
for
consistent
new
http://
new
of
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On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Guillaume
Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Guillaume,
> >
> > I have started a new discussion [1] on the topic of the new location
of
the
different
> actions compared from adding a new page and as thus should be treated
> differently.
>
> Regarding your actual proposal, I`d be inclined to -1 it, as IMO it Add menu in Flamingo which is, IMO, the real
problem here.
I'll answer on this thread.
However, I stand by my point that creating a wiki or a space are > > basic CRUD operations on the wiki model
harder to perform (i.e.
harder
to
users
> created several spaces with similar names (which doesn't really help
> structure information). This is mainly because they didn't know that a
> space with a similar name already existed. Similarly, you wouldn't want
> someone to create a "Communication" wiki if the
"MarketingCommunication"
find),
and what we`d like to do is help people create content and
structure, not the other way around.
I agree with the logic but I'm not sure I'm 100% in line with the
conclusion. As you said, the goal is to help users create and structure
their content.
Right now, when looking at existing installs, I often see cases where wiki
already exists.
What I read from your example above is that we can improve the create
page/space/wiki UIs to have a section that does a kind of suggest to the
user based on the name of the new entry he wants to create. We could have
something like "The pages/spaces/wikis/etc. above already exist. Are you
sure you want to create a new <userEnteredEntityName> instead of using one of the above?"
We could go as far as to force the user to check a checkbox before the
"Create" button becomes enabled/clickable. This could either be a
configuration option, based on the desire/intent/wishes of the admin of
that wiki/space.
With a bit of effort, this could be done consistently for the entire
"/create/" action and its plugged-in template providers.
>
> This is why I'm proposing to place "Create" buttons in context. I see
at
> least 3 places where this could be useful:
>
> - "Create wiki" button on http://
<server>/xwiki/bin/view/WikiManager/
-
"Create space" button on hypothetical
http://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/Main/SpacesIndex
(similar to what we already have on the Dashboard)
- "Create user" button on http://<server>
/xwiki/bin/view/Main/UserDirectory
So from my point of view, by putting those buttons on those pages they
would actually be easier to find and understand for end-users.
This will not solve anything if the user is already too lazy to search existing entries before creating one. The one he
wishes to create might
be
on the second page of the livetable and the lazy
user will just go ahead
and create the similar entry.
For this to be relatively effective in reducing duplication, we would
have
to implement something on the lines of what I
have described above with
the
"reuse sugestion".
I`m not particularly against this approach (of adding create options in
the
list), since we were already doing this at some
point and in some places,
but I`m still -1 for scattering the create logic in various locations
instead of using the centralized "Add" menu. If we don`t, we will have
99999 pages all inside the Main space and that's it. How`s that for a
wiki
gardening nightmare? :)
Thanks,
Eduard
the
Thanks,
Guillaume
Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> ----------
> [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/jqbcj4p4ryc56sms
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > We improved the things a bit by implementing
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10928
> > Now users can more rapidly create pages by using the implicit value
of
> > > 'Add'.
> > >
> > > Having all the option (Create Wiki, Create Space, Create Page) in >
menu
> > is important IMO since you can create spaces (and wikis) from
anywhere
in
> > the wiki. You don't need to be in a certain location to do this
action.
> > >
> > > I agree about having a Space Index of some sort and have a way
> > of localizing/navigating Wikis/Spaces/Pages. Something similar to
this
> idea
> > was the Explorer proposal
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/ExplorerApp
> >
> > Another related issue to this subject is
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9440, but again I think
XWIKI-10928
> > > <http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10928> improved the problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <
> guillaume(a)xwiki.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Devs,
> > > >
> > > > I'm currently testing XE 6.2, it's a great release, I love
the > > look a
> > > > lot - well done guys!
> > > >
> > > > I have a quick remark that is related to the new location of the
> > "Create"
> > > > button. I think we should move the "create wiki" and
"create
space"
> > > options
> > > > from where they are located now.
> > > >
> > > > The "Create wiki" button could be moved under the list of
wikis
on
this
> > > page: http://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/WikiManager/
> > >
> > > We would probably need a similar "space index" page with the
"Create
> > > space"
> > > > button there, a bit like what we have on the dashboard now: > >
> <server>/xwiki/bin/view/Dashboard/
> > >
> > > The objective being that when doing those create actions, they
would
> be
> > > > done with the context of the wikis / spaces that already exist.
> > > >
> > > > What is also a bit confusing for users is that since creating a
wiki
> is
> > much much bigger and less frequent than creating a new page, the
action
> > > should not be available from every single page.
> > >
> > > This issue has become much more salient than before to me because > the
> > > new location of the "Create" button. What's your opinion
about
this?
>
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Guillaume
> > _______________________________________________
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> > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
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