14 Mar
2016
14 Mar
'16
10:50 a.m.
I agree that we should not list the default set of wiki pages.
2016-03-14 9:59 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
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Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
On 09 Mar 2016, at 18:46, Ecaterina Moraru
(Valica) <valicac(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Iteration 2:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWikiOrgDownload2Layout#HIt…
Changes:
- Separated in 'Demo Installation' and 'Production Installation'
- Listing separated 'Installation notes' and 'Download' button for each
option
Regarding 'Demo'/'Production' terms, Eduard mentioned also:
- 'Small Installation' - 'Larger Production Installation'
- 'Ready to use bundle'
Let me know what you think.
Sounds good. Some comments (I already gave most of them already in the
past FTR):
* WAR file for Container —> WAR file for Servlet Container
* A database also needs to be set up and configured -> A database and a
Servlet Container need to be set up and configured
* Graphical installer —> Graphical Installer for All Platforms
* Graphical Windows native installer —> Graphical Installer for Windows
* Standalone package -> ZIP Package (we’re now calling them Demo
packagings)
* “use the ZIP distribution” —> “use the ZIP packaging”
* “includes a Jetty container” —> “includes a Jetty Servlet Container” or
“Jetty Server”
* The 3 demo packagings ALL include a Jetty server + HSQLDB database. The
way it’s described make it sound like only the ZIP packaging does. This
needs to be fixed.
* The reason for the ZIP package is not exactly what is mentioned; it’s
for users who don’t want/need to use a Graphical Installer.
* The explanation below that starts “If you’re a first time…” is wrong. It
should just say: “These Demo packages are not supposed to be used in
production, since the embedded database does not support large wikis
efficiently and is not tuned for a production usage.”
* “Default set of wiki pages”. Should be removed since we don’t want to
encourage this now (we offer a DW). Instead we should have a link for
“other packagings” and point to the various tutorials + yaourt-, and
include the wiki pages there in case someone needs them.
* The text below Production install should also be modified to remove the
mention of wiki pages.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Caty
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I prefer "Demo"
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:22 AM, vincent(a)massol.net <
vincent(a)massol.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 Feb 2016 at 15:27:04, vincent(a)massol.net (vincent(a)massol.net
>> (mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 Feb 2016 at 15:20:09, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
>> valicac@gmail.com(mailto:valicac@gmail.com)) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Vincent,
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 10:19 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Caty,
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17 Feb 2016 at 17:44:56, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
>> valicac(a)gmail.com
>>>>> (mailto:valicac@gmail.com)) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fixed the links
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>>>>>> valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This proposal wants to improve the current download page
layout
>> found
>>>>> at
>>>>>>> http://enterprise.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Download
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The proposal is here:
>>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bin/view/Proposal/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XWikiOrgDownload2Layout
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The proposal splits the current information into multiple
pages
>>>>> (version,
>>>>>>> type). Make sure you read the "Changes" section
from the
>> proposal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really like the new Download page (LTS, Stable, Dev). Much nicer
>> and
>>>>> cleaner than the current version! :)
>>>>>
>>>>> However I’m not sure about the second download page with the Local,
>>>>> Server, Debian boxes. There are several issues for me:
>>>>> * The Local packagings can be used on a server
>>>>> * The server packagings can be used locally
>>>>> * The Debian packaging can be used both locally and on a server
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So currently the documentation pages use terms like "Standalone
>>>> distribution" and "WAR package". For me these naming are
not
>> user-friendly
>>>> and I might not know what the acronym stands for or what standalone
>> means.
>>>> That's why I suggested Local and Server, since they are more
>> simplistic but
>>>> yes maybe they are not truly correct. Maybe we can iterate more on
the
>>>> naming but we need an improvement
here since we want to encourage
>> "local"
>>>> testing even for not so technical users/administrators.
>>>
>>> I understand what you wanted but indeed I find the new terms even more
>> confusing :)
>>>
>>> For me we should think in term of “Using XWiki”. To use XWiki the user
>> has 2 choices:
>>>
>>> A) Download and install it locally (wherever he’s installing the
>> download from, could be a laptop, could be a server machine, etc).
This
is
>> usually referred as “on premises” by
comparison to using it as a
service
>> (cloud, saas, etc).
>>>
>>> B) Use it as a service.
>>>
>>> For A) the options we have are:
>>> * Demo packagings: those are the options from
>>
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationStandalone
.
>> They include a pre-installed HSQLDB
Database and a Jetty container
>> Specifically the following installers/packagings:
>>> ** the EXE packaging,
>>> ** the ZIP packaging,
>>> ** the JAR packaging
>>
>> FWIW Denis suggested the name “Personal packagings”. So we have 2
options
>> so far:
>> - Demo packagings (clearly shows they not for production)
>> - Personal packagings (hints that they are for personal use only, ie
>> single user wiki)
>>
>> I think I prefer Demo. WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> * Production-level packagings:
>>> ** Debian packaging (all in one installation that includes MySQL and
>> Tomcat)
>>> ** The WAR (the user needs to install both a Servlet Container and a
>> Database and deploy the WAR in the Servlet Container)
>>> * Other packagings/setup that are not supported by the XWiki Core Dev
>> Team:
>>> ** tutorials
>>> ** yaourt packaging
>>>
>>> For B) the options we have are:
>>> * Demo on playground.xwiki.org(http://playground.xwiki.org)
>>> * myxwiki.org(http://myxwiki.org) for non-profit organizations and
>> individuals. Free but no warranties in term of uptime or support. Used
as
a
>> real-world test platform by the XWiki
Core Dev Team to test the latest
>> versions of XWiki.
>>> * Cloud and Hosting offers from companies helping develop the XWiki
>> open source project (the companies listed at
>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Support#HProfessionalSupport
>> and defined by the xwiki.org(http://xwiki.org) governance at
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Governance):
>>> ** From XWiki SAS: XCS (http://info.xwiki.com/xcs-demo-request.html)
>> or dedicated hosting (http://www.xwiki.com/en/services/hosting)
>>> ** From Softec or EsPresto AG: link to their web sites
>>>
>>> It would be nice that a user wants to use XWiki he lands on a page
>> showing the 2 options: install on premises and hosting/cloud solutions.
>> Then he can drill down and if he wants to install on premises, be able
to
>> select from the various download
options.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>
>>>>> * Server is not a good differentiator since XWiki is a Server app
>> even if
>>>>> you install it locally ;)
>>>>> * BTW it’s misising the other tutorials and other packagings (the
>> yaourt
>>>>> one for example)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To be honest I didn't know what you were referring to until I found
>>>>
>>
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/Installation#HUsingyaou…
>> When I did the re-design I took the
information from the Download
page and
>> the "yaourt" one is missing.
>> In order to fix this we could modify the third column called now
"Debian
>> Installation" into a other operating systems ways of installing ( or
>> another name ) and list there links towards the Debian and Arch Linux
>> install documentation.
>>
>>
>>> * And even more important it’s also missing Cloud solutions. I’d
really
>>> like if we could list the various cloud solutions offered by
companies
>>> participating to the xwiki development (and possibly list
myxwiki.org too
>>> but if we list it, we need to put visible disclaimer since it’s a
test farm
>>> with no warranties and for non-business/personal projects only).
>>>
>>
>> IMO this should be a total different page, let's call it "Test Drive
XWiki"
>> or "Try XWiki" or "Evaluate XWiki" that could showcase
Playground,
MyXWiki
>> and other Cloud solutions, but this should be part of a different
proposal
>> than the Download page (which lists versions and install methods).
>> Currently I didn't tackled this proposal yet.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> So maybe we shouldn’t discriminate between Local, Server, Debian
but maybe
>>> instead between “On-Premises” and “Cloud”, WDYT?
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure what "On Premises" means although I know it's an
used
term,
>> but I don't find it very clear and not sure if it describes well the
zip,
>> war, etc. options.
>>
>> The problem is that we list the "Local, Server, Debian" install
options
>> after you selected the version you want to download. So I find it a
bit odd
>> for an user to be convinced that he wants to download XWiki, select
his
>> version and then be presented with the Cloud Solutions. Cloud
solutions
>> should be part of an evaluation step, before and independent of the
>> download step.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caty
>>
>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Caty
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