26 Aug
2013
26 Aug
'13
12:30 p.m.
Hi developers!
I'm back from holidays. I have read all your messages this morning, and
this is what I propose for the next 2 weeks (until M2):
(it is based on the proposal D from Caty:
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…)
* We use the term 'subwiki' instead of 'wiki'.
* We add an option in the subwiki creation ui called 'users isolation',
that enable local users for the new subwiki.
* We add a new right called 'subwiki creation right'.
* We add a new right called 'users isolation rights', which enable or not
if the user has the right to use the 'users isolation' option while he is
creating a new subwiki.
* We drop the notion of 'workspaces' and 'farm', since you can have the
same behaviour with the good set of settings.
Now, I quote Guillaume Lerouge who has explained several use cases, and
I'll say how to handle it with this proposal:
1. *Large organization where various groups want to have independent wikis
for their knowledge bases:* no local users, wiki creation restricted to
admins to avoid duplication of KBs
--> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user
isolation rights' given to nobody.
2. *"Pure" wiki farm as on myxwiki.org:* you only want admins to be able to
create new wikis to prevent spam. Each wiki has its local users.
--> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user
isolation rights' given to admin too. Each time a new subwiki is created,
the admin select the option 'users isolation'.
3. *Large organization where people want to work on projects with
sub-contractors (some wikis act as an extranet):* local users allowed,
anyone can create a wiki
--> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user
isolation
rights' given to all users.
4. *Company where people want to work on internal projects:* local users
not allowed, anyone can create a wiki
--> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user
isolation
rights' given to nobody.
As you can see, all the well-knowned use cases are handled by my proposal.
I would like to to say if you agree with it. We only have 2 weeks to
achieve this, and I work only 4 days a week.
WDYT?
Regards,
Louis-Marie
2013/8/2 Jean Coury <jean.coury(a)gmail.com>
Hello,
Firstly I couldn't read everything because there is a lot of off topics so
forgive me if some of the following should not be here. If you have no time
go the last line directly.
I've been struggling with client with all those terms wich look like the
same (e.g. Main wiki, sub-wiki and then Workspace, Space) and the fact that
Workspace have "Work" into it and so is not really friendly to the
client's
users. My first proposal would have been "Portal > Wiki > Space >
Page" in
order to keep the basics and to find an easy way to describe the main wiki.
Then I read multiple threads and have a look to the competitors and
find-out that Home as a first term would be great and less technical than
Portal. Moreover Portal is full of connotations and do not show the
possibility to customize it.
"There is no place like Home" don't you think?
Proposal : Home > Wiki > Space > Page
Then I looked at the proposal made by Cathy on
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
I would have picked B but I strongly dislike the fact that the product can
be two things at a time and so*
=> I vote for* *D*.
Regards,
2013/8/1 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com>
aspects
of
required
(Add
docs
represent
> > the
> > > current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or
"Portal" or "Farm" or
"Workspace"
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
yet
It
the
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Jean Coury
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
I vote for D (not B anymore).
2013/8/1 Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
> Hi,
>
> I like this option. Waiting for further agreement on the sister thread
> about workspaces, I think this is a good solution for XE 5.2.
>
> The downside is that we lose a bit of simplicity, but it's a tough
topic.
>
> Guillaume
>
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Caty,
> > > >
> > > > See below.
> > > >
> > > > On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol <
> vincent(a)massol.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <
sergiu(a)xwiki.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> > > >>>>> Hi devs,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2
some days
ago,
> > > there's
> > > >>> this time:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> "
> > > >>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home
page -
Caty +
> >
>>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but
he's
> > > going to
> > > >>> work full time on XWiki development and especially on UI
from
(standalone
> > > >>> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power
> now
> >>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you! :)
> >>>>> "
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having
Workspaces
> >>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to
ensure
> > we all
> > >>> agree about this.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The rationale is:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki
> > > XWiki. One
> > > >>> of the very important differentiator of XWiki vs other
> > wikis/solutions
> > > is
> > > >>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people downloading and
> > installing
> > > >>> XWiki don't see it.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the
committers
> >
mostly
> > >>> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of
XEM/Wiki
> > > Manager
> > > >>> need polishing. Having them in default will ensure that we
take
> them
> > > into
> > > >>> account and make them first class citizens when we develop.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements
to
> > > >>> integrate this by default:
> > > >>>>>
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Here's my +1
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive
XWiki.
> > Without
> > > >>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if
the
> homepage
> > > >>>> changes from a "welcome to your wiki" page to a
"here are your
> > > >>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki
"becomes" something
else
in
> > the
> > >>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the
> inside,
> > >>>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and
the
> > single
> > >>>> wiki mode can still be used.
> > >>>
> > >>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The
plan
> is
> > > that
> > > >>> the home page doesn't change. All that changes for a
first time
> user
> > > >>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries
> > > Workspace
> > > >>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal).
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Proposals:
> > > >>
> > > >> * Changes to the Menu
> > > >>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
> >
>
> > > * "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots
which
the
> colibri skin, right?
> >
> > * "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following
since
> > we don't have any UI for them:
> > > ** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global
> > portal/system level
> > > ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT that displays all
> from
all wikis
> > ** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one.
> Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's
needed
> > ** Note: Users index should list all
global users
> > * I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that
represents
> a
> > single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to …,
new
System
> i.e.
something that represents the whole system and have only
system-wide
> > actions in it.
> >
> > After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have the > > "Home" menu entry to
represent the main wiki. However all subwikis
menu
> > > entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index"
which
> should
> > > only be in "Home".
> > >
> > > In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of > (farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it
differently than in a
wiki.
> > But we can take care of this at that time… ;)
> >
> > Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only 1
> > concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of just
> by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard:
> "Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default).
>
I've created the 'Option D' proposal
> > - used 'subwiki' term instead
of 'wiki'
> > - used 'users isolation' checkbox to replace the notion of workspace
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of
> creating
> > a
> > > new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation
> wizard
> > > page (for example on the user having Admin rights on the main
wiki).
If
listing
> an
> > Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to create a wiki he
could
> > edit
> > > that page and change the check.
> > >
> > > WDYT?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > * "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now + Users Index for
all
> > local users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps of
the
>
current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki
> >
> >> * Wiki/Workspace Creation
> >>
>
> > > >> (please chose between
Option A, B or C)
> > > >
> > > > Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept
of
> > > workspaces and come back to the
concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much
> > simpler
> > > for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a
configuration
> for
a
> > wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Caty
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages
and
> > >>>> disadvantages. On one
hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki
is a
> > >>>> collaborative
platform, not just a wiki, so people that need
> > >>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that
XWiki
>
isn't
> >>>> another boring wiki. On the other hand, people that are just
looking
> > for
> > >>>> a wiki that's nice to use and "not-ugly", might
be put off by > > >>>> another layer of
complexity, and might drop XWiki from their
list
> of
> > > >>>> candidates. In other words, it alienates even more the
kind of
> users
> > > >>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly
complex.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the
other? >
would
> > be
> > >>>> in line with our vision of "enterprise
collaboration", but I
still
> > > think
> > > >>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any kind of users.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask
in > > first
> > > >>>> step of the distribution manager what kind of usage do we
want.
In
> > the
> > > >>>> meantime, we can still polish the pages that will go in
the
> > > "workspaces"
> > > >>>> flavor.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in
5.2, unless we
have
> > > really
> > > >>>> good backwards compatibility and a flavor for a simple
wiki
for
> textual
> >>>> collaboration.
> >>>
> >>> I hope the above allays your fears :)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Vincent
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs