Re: [xwiki-devs] [VOTE] Integrate Workspaces by default in XWiki's default XAR

Hi developers! I'm back from holidays. I have read all your messages this morning, and this is what I propose for the next 2 weeks (until M2): (it is based on the proposal D from Caty: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…) * We use the term 'subwiki' instead of 'wiki'. * We add an option in the subwiki creation ui called 'users isolation', that enable local users for the new subwiki. * We add a new right called 'subwiki creation right'. * We add a new right called 'users isolation rights', which enable or not if the user has the right to use the 'users isolation' option while he is creating a new subwiki. * We drop the notion of 'workspaces' and 'farm', since you can have the same behaviour with the good set of settings. Now, I quote Guillaume Lerouge who has explained several use cases, and I'll say how to handle it with this proposal: 1. *Large organization where various groups want to have independent wikis for their knowledge bases:* no local users, wiki creation restricted to admins to avoid duplication of KBs --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user isolation rights' given to nobody. 2. *"Pure" wiki farm as on myxwiki.org:* you only want admins to be able to create new wikis to prevent spam. Each wiki has its local users. --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user isolation rights' given to admin too. Each time a new subwiki is created, the admin select the option 'users isolation'. 3. *Large organization where people want to work on projects with sub-contractors (some wikis act as an extranet):* local users allowed, anyone can create a wiki --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user isolation rights' given to all users. 4. *Company where people want to work on internal projects:* local users not allowed, anyone can create a wiki --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user isolation rights' given to nobody. As you can see, all the well-knowned use cases are handled by my proposal. I would like to to say if you agree with it. We only have 2 weeks to achieve this, and I work only 4 days a week. WDYT?

Regards, Louis-Marie 2013/8/2 Jean Coury &lt;jean.coury(a)gmail.com&gt; > Hello, > > Firstly I couldn't read everything because there is a lot of off topics so > forgive me if some of the following should not be here. If you have no time > go the last line directly. > > I've been struggling with client with all those terms wich look like the > same (e.g. Main wiki, sub-wiki and then Workspace, Space) and the fact that > Workspace have "Work" into it and so is not really friendly to the client's > users. My first proposal would have been "Portal > Wiki > Space > Page" in > order to keep the basics and to find an easy way to describe the main wiki. > Then I read multiple threads and have a look to the competitors and > find-out that Home as a first term would be great and less technical than > Portal. Moreover Portal is full of connotations and do not show the > possibility to customize it. > > "There is no place like Home" don't you think? > Proposal : Home > Wiki > Space > Page > > Then I looked at the proposal made by Cathy on > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem… > I would have picked B but I strongly dislike the fact that the product can > be two things at a time and so* > => I vote for* *D*. > > Regards, > > > 2013/8/1 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau &lt;gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; > >> I vote for D (not B anymore). >> >> 2013/8/1 Guillaume Lerouge &lt;guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt; >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I like this option. Waiting for further agreement on the sister thread >>> about workspaces, I think this is a good solution for XE 5.2. >>> >>> The downside is that we lose a bit of simplicity, but it's a tough > topic. >>> >>> Guillaume >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >>> valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Caty, >>>>>> >>>>>> See below. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >>>>> valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol < >>> vincent(a)massol.net&gt; >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu < > sergiu(a)xwiki.org&gt; >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi devs, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some days > ago, >>>>> there's >>>>>>>> this time: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page - > Caty + >>>>>>>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but >> he's >>>>> going to >>>>>>>> work full time on XWiki development and especially on UI > aspects >>> from >>>>> now >>>>>>>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you! :) >>>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having >>>> Workspaces >>>>>>>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to >>> ensure >>>>> we all >>>>>>>> agree about this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The rationale is: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki >> (standalone >>>>>>>> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power > of >>>>> XWiki. One >>>>>>>> of the very important differentiator of XWiki vs other >>>> wikis/solutions >>>>> is >>>>>>>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people downloading and >>>> installing >>>>>>>> XWiki don't see it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the > committers >>>>> mostly >>>>>>>> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of >> XEM/Wiki >>>>> Manager >>>>>>>> need polishing. Having them in default will ensure that we take >>> them >>>>> into >>>>>>>> account and make them first class citizens when we develop. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements > required >> to >>>>>>>> integrate this by default: >>>>>>>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Here's my +1 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki. >>>> Without >>>>>>>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if the >>> homepage >>>>>>>>> changes from a "welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are your >>>>>>>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes" something > else >>> in >>>>> the >>>>>>>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the >>>> inside, >>>>>>>>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and >> the >>>>> single >>>>>>>>> wiki mode can still be used. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The >> plan >>> is >>>>> that >>>>>>>> the home page doesn't change. All that changes for a first time >>> user >>>>>>>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries > (Add >>>>> Workspace >>>>>>>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Proposals: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Changes to the Menu >>>>>>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >>>>>> >>>>>> * "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots >> which >>>> the >>>>> colibri skin, right? >>>>>> >>>>>> * "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following >>> since >>>>> we don't have any UI for them: >>>>>> ** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global >>>>> portal/system level >>>>>> ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT that displays all >> docs >>>>> from all wikis >>>>>> ** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one. >>>>> Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's >>> needed >>>>>> ** Note: Users index should list all global users >>>>>> * I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that >>> represents >>>> a >>>>> single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to >> represent >>>> the >>>>> current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal" or "Farm" > or >> …, >>>>> i.e. something that represents the whole system and have only >>> system-wide >>>>> actions in it. >>>>> >>>>> After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have the >> new >>>>> "Home" menu entry to represent the main wiki. However all subwikis >> menu >>>>> entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index" which >>> should >>>>> only be in "Home". >>>>> >>>>> In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of > System >>>>> (farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it differently than in a >>> wiki. >>>>> But we can take care of this at that time… ;) >>>>> >>>>> Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only 1 >>>>> concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of >> "Workspace" >>>> just >>>>> by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard: >>>>> "Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default). >>>>> >>>> >>>> I've created the 'Option D' proposal >>>> >>>> >>> >> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem… >>>> - used 'subwiki' term instead of 'wiki' >>>> - used 'users isolation' checkbox to replace the notion of workspace >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Caty >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of >>> creating >>>> a >>>>> new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation >>> wizard >>>>> page (for example on the user having Admin rights on the main > wiki). >> If >>>> an >>>>> Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to create a wiki he >> could >>>> edit >>>>> that page and change the check. >>>>> >>>>> WDYT? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>>> * "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now + Users Index for > listing >>> all >>>>> local users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps of >> the >>>>> current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki >>>>>> >>>>>>> * Wiki/Workspace Creation >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem… >>>>>>> (please chose between Option A, B or C) >>>>>> >>>>>> Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept > of >>>>> workspaces and come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much >>>> simpler >>>>> for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a > configuration >>>> for a >>>>> wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Caty >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages >> and >>>>>>>>> disadvantages. On one hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki >> is a >>>>>>>>> collaborative platform, not just a wiki, so people that need >>>>>>>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that >> XWiki >>>>> isn't >>>>>>>>> another boring wiki. On the other hand, people that are just >>> looking >>>>> for >>>>>>>>> a wiki that's nice to use and "not-ugly", might be put off by >> yet >>>>>>>>> another layer of complexity, and might drop XWiki from their >> list >>> of >>>>>>>>> candidates. In other words, it alienates even more the kind of >>> users >>>>>>>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly complex. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other? > It >>>> would >>>>> be >>>>>>>>> in line with our vision of "enterprise collaboration", but I >> still >>>>> think >>>>>>>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any kind of users. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in > the >>>> first >>>>>>>>> step of the distribution manager what kind of usage do we > want. >> In >>>> the >>>>>>>>> meantime, we can still polish the pages that will go in the >>>>> "workspaces" >>>>>>>>> flavor. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we > have >>>>> really >>>>>>>>> good backwards compatibility and a flavor for a simple wiki > for >>>>> textual >>>>>>>>> collaboration. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope the above allays your fears :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> -Vincent