Re: [xwiki-devs] [Brainstorming] "Child/sibling/descendant page" vs "subpage"

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:34 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote: > > On 18 Sep 2015 at 11:27:33, Marius Dumitru Florea (mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com)) wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:10 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 17 Sep 2015 at 13:32:28, Eduard Moraru (enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote: >>> >>>> With the introduction of Nested Spaces / Nested Documents, we find >>>> ourselves having to expand our terminology to accommodate the tree-like >>>> structure of spaces/documents that we are managing. >>>> >>>> IMO, we have started going in the wrong direction with using standard tree >>>> terminology directly in XWiki's UI, introducing new terms that simple users >>>> could be easily confused by or overwhelmed (this adding to the already >>>> existing ones). >>>> >>>> The specific issue I have in mind is how do we refer child entities for >>>> each concept (wiki, space, page) and how does this scale when the hierarchy >>>> increases. >>>> >>>> What I propose is that we Keep It SSimple (*™*) :) and just use the "sub" >>>> prefix for the concept at hand. >>>> >>>> Examples: >>>> * wiki -> subwiki (here we can continue using "wiki", as discussed >>>> previously [1], since we don`t actually support nested wikis yet, but if >>>> "subwiki" is used in a conversation it still makes perfect sense) >>>> * space -> subspace [2] >>>> * page -> subpage [3] >>>> >>>> The problem with the term "child", as pointed out by Marius in an offline >>>> chat, has indeed the issue that it can only be applied correctly for first >>>> level descendants, after which it becomes inaccurate, since starting with >>>> the second level the term "descendant" is more appropriate. >>> >> >>> I’m not sure about this. I think Children could be used generically to mean any level of Children but would need to be checked. >> >> If you have A.B.C: >> >> * the "Children" viewer (live table) will show "B, C" for A > > I think right now it also shows A but this could be fixed. > >> * the "Siblings" viewer (live table) will show only "B" (or nothing?) for B > > There’s no sibling for C in your definition. Yes, I know what siblings are :) but I said "for B" not "for C". > > If you had: > A.B.C > A.B.D > A.E > > Then the sibling for A.B.C would be A.B.D. Thus if you’re on A.B.C and ask for Sibling you’ll see D in the LT. > > If you’re on A.B and ask for siblings you’ll see only E (and not E, C, D since C and D are not siblings of A.B). So you don't think that the statement "E and C are both children of A but they are not siblings because they don't have he same parent" is confusing?

> Thanks > -Vincent > >> So B and C are both children of A but are not siblings. That can be >> confusing. You need the tree view to see the actual hierarchy. >> >> Thanks, >> Marius >> >>>> >>>> All of this becomes unnecessarily complicated and, IMO, we should avoid >>>> dealing with it by using the "sub" prefix which is much easier to grasp and >>>> accept. >>>> >>>> On a similar note, I also find the term "nested" to be a bit unnecessarily >>>> complicated, specially for non-technical and non-english native users. >>>> >>>> WDYT? >>> >>> I don’t like the “Sub" terminology because it’s incomplete. It’s not complete because you still need words for Parents, Siblings, Root, etc. >>> >>> I'd much prefer to use a standard Tree terminology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_(data_structure)#Terminologies_used_in_T… >>> >>> BTW Terminal Page could be replaced by Leaf Page if we wanted too but maybe that’s too technical? >>> >>> I’d be ok to replace subwiki by Child Wiki/Children Wikis to be consistent. >>> >>> So overall I find Child/Children, Parent, and Siblings very easy to understand by any simple user. I find that using Sub, Parent, Siblings is not better (and it would certainly not replace Sibling). >>> >>> WDYT? >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Eduard >>>> >>>> ---------- >>>> [1] http://markmail.org/message/cehvpds5qmljq5f7 >>>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace >>>> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpage >>>