Re: [xwiki-devs] [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri Thanks, Caty On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote: > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > wrote: > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer > > > > s/upgrade/apply/ > > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9. > > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >> wrote: > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, vincent(a)massol.net < vincent(a)massol.net&gt; > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com > (mailto:thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com)) wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> IMO we should modify > >>>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does > >>>>> not ?). > >>>> > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for > older versions. > >>> > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course > >>> since that's what we are talking about here. > >>> > >>>> > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> -Vincent > >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not > support it!) > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not > IE9/10/11 > >>>>> >> only. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > See > >>>>> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet… > >>>>> >> . > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of > committers > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated > >>>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with > >>>>> >> recent market share. > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem > to show > >>>>> >> similar data: > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > >>>>> >> >> - > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% > of users > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this > includes: > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 > is less > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded > to IE11)? > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> Thanks > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net ( > vincent(a)massol.net > >>>>> >> (mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote: > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( > andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com > >>>>> >> (mailto:andreea.popescu@xwiki.com)) wrote: > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all, > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d > like to > >>>>> >> propose > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions > are: > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still > widely used > >>>>> >> by > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to > IE10 and > >>>>> >> IE11. > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop > Share by > >>>>> >> Version) > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 > by 16.61% > >>>>> >> users. > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions > (IE8 - > >>>>> >> 20.85% > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still > significant. > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support > only the > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re > doing except > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all > browsers and the > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services > on top of > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their > customers. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like > that we > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, > because I > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use > it without > >>>>> >> problems. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at > >>>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would > cover 70% > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that > strangely > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the > others… Not > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have > problems > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, > if that’s > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and > with > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we > try it > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden > for us or > >>>>> >> it’s manageable. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each > browser or > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for > the > >>>>> >> marketshare approach. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list > >>>>> >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > -- > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> -- > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> devs mailing list > >>>>> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> >> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > devs mailing list > >>>>> > devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> devs mailing list > >>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> devs mailing list > >>>> devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Thomas Mortagne > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas Mortagne > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs