2 Aug
2013
2 Aug
'13
10:22 a.m.
Hello,
Firstly I couldn't read everything because there is a lot of off topics so
forgive me if some of the following should not be here. If you have no time
go the last line directly.
I've been struggling with client with all those terms wich look like the
same (e.g. Main wiki, sub-wiki and then Workspace, Space) and the fact that
Workspace have "Work" into it and so is not really friendly to the client's
users. My first proposal would have been "Portal > Wiki > Space > Page"
in
order to keep the basics and to find an easy way to describe the main wiki.
Then I read multiple threads and have a look to the competitors and
find-out that Home as a first term would be great and less technical than
Portal. Moreover Portal is full of connotations and do not show the
possibility to customize it.
"There is no place like Home" don't you think?
Proposal : Home > Wiki > Space > Page
Then I looked at the proposal made by Cathy on
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
I would have picked B but I strongly dislike the fact that the product can
be two things at a time and so*
=> I vote for* *D*.
Regards,
2013/8/1 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com>
I vote for D (not B anymore).
2013/8/1 Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
ensure
> > we all
> > >>> agree about this.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The rationale is:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki
(standalone
to
homepage
the
docs
represent
new
"Workspace"
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
If
the
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem…
yet
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--
Jean Coury
Hi,
I like this option. Waiting for further agreement on the sister thread
about workspaces, I think this is a good solution for XE 5.2.
The downside is that we lose a bit of simplicity, but it's a tough topic.
Guillaume
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
he's
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
> > Hi Caty,
> >
> > See below.
> >
> > On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol <
vincent(a)massol.net>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu
<sergiu(a)xwiki.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi devs,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some
days ago,
> > there's
> > >>> this time:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "
> > >>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page -
Caty +
> > >>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but
>
going to
> >>> work full time on XWiki development and especially on UI aspects
from
now
>>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you! :)
>>>>> "
>>>>>
>>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having
Workspaces
> >>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to
> > >>> version or install the
default XAR) they get to see the power of
> > XWiki. One
> > >>> of the very important differentiator of XWiki vs other
> wikis/solutions
> > is
> > >>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people downloading and
> installing
> > >>> XWiki don't see it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the
committers
> > mostly
> > >>> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of
XEM/Wiki
>
Manager
> >>> need polishing. Having them in default will ensure that we take
them
> > into
> > >>> account and make them first class citizens when we develop.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements
required >
>>> integrate this by default:
> >>>>>
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's my +1
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki.
Without
> >>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if the > >>>> changes from a
"welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are your
> >>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes"
something else
in
> > the
> > >>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the
> inside,
> > >>>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and
> > single
> > >>>> wiki mode can still be used.
> > >>>
> > >>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The
plan
is
which
> that
> >>> the home page doesn't change. All that changes for a first time
user
> > >>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries (Add
> > Workspace
> > >>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal).
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Proposals:
> > >>
> > >> * Changes to the Menu
> > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu
> > >
> > > * "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots
the
> colibri skin, right?
> >
> > * "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following
since
> > we don't have any UI for them:
> > > ** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global
> > portal/system level
> > > ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT that displays all
> from
all wikis
> > ** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one.
> Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's
needed
> > ** Note: Users index should list all
global users
> > * I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that
represents
> a
> > single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to > the
> > current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal"
or "Farm" or
…,
> i.e.
something that represents the whole system and have only
system-wide
> > actions in it.
> >
> > After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have the > > "Home" menu entry to
represent the main wiki. However all subwikis
menu
>
entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index" which
should
> only be in "Home".
>
> In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of System
> (farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it differently than in a
wiki.
> > But we can take care of this at that time… ;)
> >
> > Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only 1
> > concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of just
by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard:
"Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default).
I've created the 'Option D' proposal
- used
'subwiki' term instead of 'wiki'
- used 'users isolation' checkbox to replace the notion of workspace
Thanks,
Caty
>
> Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of
creating
a
> new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation
wizard
> > page (for example on the user having Admin rights on the main wiki). > an
> > Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to create a wiki he
could
edit
> that page and change the check.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > * "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now + Users Index for listing
all
> > local users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps of current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the
current wiki
>
>> * Wiki/Workspace Creation
>>
> > >> (please chose between Option
A, B or C)
> > >
> > > Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept of
> > workspaces and come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much
> simpler
> > for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a
configuration
> for a
> > wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Caty
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages
and
> > >>>> disadvantages. On one
hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki
is a
> > >>>> collaborative
platform, not just a wiki, so people that need
> > >>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that
XWiki
>
isn't
> >>>> another boring wiki. On the other hand, people that are just
looking
> > for
> > >>>> a wiki that's nice to use and "not-ugly", might
be put off by > > >>>> another layer of
complexity, and might drop XWiki from their
list
of
still
> >>>> candidates. In other words,
it alienates even more the kind of
users
> > >>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly
complex.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other?
It
> would
> > be
> > >>>> in line with our vision of "enterprise
collaboration", but I > > think
> > >>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any kind of users.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in
the
> first
> > >>>> step of the distribution manager what kind of usage do we
want.
In
the
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>>>> meantime, we can still polish
the pages that will go in the
"workspaces"
>>>> flavor.
>>>>
>>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we
have
really
>>>> good backwards compatibility and a flavor for a simple wiki for
textual
>>>> collaboration.
>>>
>>> I hope the above allays your fears :)
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
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