5 Jun
2014
5 Jun
'14
3:42 p.m.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
Ok, I rephrase my question.
Could you define what you consider a usage of dependency A because of B and
the opposite ?
I'm not going to copy/paste a dictionary definition of "because of".
It's pretty obvious to me why I'm using an API, if B is not in the
equation does my code still work ?
Why do we get it ? Its removal could become an nightmare... but if we agree
on that, we should remove it ASAP.
Yes if we agree on that we should remove it. You don't have such
forced dependency on commons and it does not make it a nightmare...
Ok, so not deps at any scope in any high level poms. This seems opposite to
what Sergiu proposed, but it would be nice to agree on a rule.
No forced dependency if it's possible any if the submodule won't need
it. It can make sense in some very specific use cases where all
submodules will have this dependency or else they have nothing to do
here (for example dependency on rendering-api in
xwiki-platform-rendering) but it's certainly not true for something
like root commons or platform pom.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Thomas Mortagne
<thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
If all your are saying here is that we don't have tools to enforce
that rule then yes we don't have tool to enforce that rule but we
don't have any to apply any of the proposed rules so far.
The only tool we have is going to force you put a dependency on each
and every import you have. Do you really want to apply that ?
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle
<dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
But you may not see that so easily when you change a few line in an
existing module. Nothing will complains until you remove your deps to B. What happen if you also use dependency A not just
because of B ?
You put a dependency on A.
How do you determine "because of B" ?
By thinking.
And what to you think of xwiki-commons-test-component that is a deps of
xwiki-platform-core ?
It's wrong IMO. Any forced dependency is wrong IMO.
Should we remove it ?
Yes we should remove it.
What about deps for logging ?
Depends how you use it, the logger used with @Inject is an official
feature of our component framework so xwiki-commons-component-api
should be enough.
And could we add xwiki-commons-stability
(probably provided scope) to a
high level pom to avoid adding/removing it all the time ? (or forget it,
since it come with xwiki-commons-component-api currently) ?
It's far from being used everywhere and there is no rule forcing to
use it, you set @Unstable when an API is unstable, it's not forbidden
to not go through @Unstable. Plus you are supposed to remove that
annotation after some time.
To sum up, currently I am not sure the exception rule "because of" is clear
enough to not create confusion. I also agree with Sergiu that we should
list all (no warning of used deps not declared in dependency:analysis),
this make the rule clear at least. I am not against factoring common
infrastructure in a single place, but Thomas seems to be clearly -1.
It would be nice to have more feedback from other committers ! This is not
a minor aspect of our best practice IMO.
--
Thomas Mortagne
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Thomas Mortagne
WDYT ?
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Thomas Mortagne <
thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
> For me the rule to apply is simple: when you require dependency A
> because of another dependency B (B expose A in it's API, you implement
> an interface of A to be found by B, etc.) you should not explicitly
> depend on A.
>
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > I am reviving this proposal since we never came to a conclusion, and I
> have
> > the feeling that our deps become more and more convoluted.
> >
> > To resume what I get from past history with my own vision:
> >
> > 1) Since our modules are getting really modular, it should never
silently
> > depends on transitive dependency of
another module (with IMO some
> > exception, see 3). So any undeclared deps found by dependency:analyse
> > should be explicitly declare in the effective pom (Vincent POV as
well)
> > 2) Apply maven principle, we should
reuse and apply
> > convention-over-configuration
> > over configuration, so common dependency like slf4j,
> xwiki-commons-stability
> > ? ... should be in a high level parent pom
> > 3) We may rely on some very tight transitive dependency, for exemple,
it
> > would be really curious that
xwiki-commons-component-api stop
providing
> > javax.inject, or that
xwki-commons-test-components stop providing
junit,
> > mockito, and al.
> >
> > It would be nice to add those rules in our best practice and to always
> > check our pom upon finishing changes in a module. The best would be to
> > enforce those rules, but this is not easy since static analysis is
> limited
> > and could create false positive.
> >
> > WDYT ?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Thomas Mortagne <
> thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Aug 12, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 08/12/2011 07:50 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> >> >>> Hi devs,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Running mvn dependency:dependency-analyze produces interesting
> results.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> For example:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> [INFO]
> >>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>> [INFO] Building XWiki
Commons - Properties 3.2-SNAPSHOT
> >> >>> [INFO]
> >>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>> …
> >> >>> [INFO] --- maven-dependency-plugin:2.3:analyze (default-cli) @
> >> xwiki-commons-properties ---
> >> >>> [WARNING] Used undeclared dependencies found:
> >> >>> [WARNING] org.slf4j:slf4j-api:jar:1.6.1:compile
> >> >>> [WARNING] javax.inject:javax.inject:jar:1:compile
> >> >>> [WARNING] Unused declared dependencies found:
> >> >>> [WARNING]
> >>
org.xwiki.commons:xwiki-commons-component-api:jar:3.2-SNAPSHOT:compile
> >> >>> [WARNING]
> org.xwiki.commons:xwiki-commons-test:jar:3.2-SNAPSHOT:test
> >> >>> [WARNING]
org.hibernate:hibernate-validator:jar:4.2.0.Final:test
> >> >>> [WARNING]
org.hamcrest:hamcrest-core:jar:1.1:test
> >> >>> [WARNING] org.jmock:jmock:jar:2.5.1:test
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The question is (for this module but more generally for all
others):
> >> >>> * Should we add slf4j
and javax.inject reps in the pom.xml for
this
> >> module? (for ex today slf4j and
javax.inject are found in the
> component-api
> >> dep)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I think we should, wdyt?
> >> >>
> >> >> +1 as well.
> >> >
> >> > hmm actually we need to decide about the following:
> >> >
> >> > * In order to simplify writing pom.xml for modules having
components
> >> (i.e. depending on
xwiki-commons-component-api) I had added the
> following
> >> to xwiki-commons-component-api/pom.xml:
> >> >
> >> > <!-- Make it easy for components that wish to log - They
don't
have
> >> to explicitly import SLF4J -->
> >> > <dependency>
> >> > <groupId>org.slf4j</groupId>
> >> > <artifactId>slf4j-api</artifactId>
> >> > </dependency>
> >> >
> >> > * In the same manner we have a dependency on javax.inject in
> >> xwiki-commons-component-api/pom.xml:
> >> >
> >> > <!-- We add this dependency here so that users of the Component
API
> >> just need to depend on this artifact
and
> >> > don't have to explicitly add a dependency on
> >> javax.inject:java.inject. -->
> >> > <dependency>
> >> > <groupId>javax.inject</groupId>
> >> > <artifactId>javax.inject</artifactId>
> >> > <version>1</version>
> >> > </dependency>
> >> >
> >> > So the question is: do we want to force each module depending on
> >> xwiki-commons-component-api to have to declare an explicit dep on
> >> javax.inject and org.slf4j?
> >> >
> >> > I'm not so sure about that…
> >>
> >> I'm -0 and near -1 to list this kind of dependencies, using slf4j or
> >> javax.inject are what you HAVE TO use when you write an XWiki
> >> component so it's redundant from my POV.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > WDYT?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > -Vincent
> >> >
> >> >>> Note that the "Unused declared dependencies found:"
doesn't
always
> >> generate correct results as is the
case here. This is mostly because
> it's a
> >> static byte code check so any dep used at runtime will be considered
> unused.
> >> >>> See
> >>
>
http://www.sonatype.com/books/mvnex-book/reference/optimizing-sect-dependen…
> >> >>
> >> >> Some of these dependencies are not used directly by us, but are
> needed
> >> >> transitively by another library. For example, slf4j needs logback,
> which
> >> >> we never use directly (although we don't really declare it in
every
> >> >> module that does logging).
Hibernate needs us to pick a cache, a
> >> >> connection pool, validator, and a bytecode manipulation utility.
So
yes,
>> >> we can safely ignore most of these false negatives, but we should
still
>> >> try to remove those that are really wrongfully declared as
dependencies.
>> >>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> -Vincent
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > devs(a)xwiki.org
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> devs(a)xwiki.org
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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