30 Nov
2010
30 Nov
'10
5:12 p.m.
Hi,
I think we should provide default template providers in default XE. This thread is about
deciding which ones to have by default.
Candidates:
==========
1- Wiki Macro
2- Blog Post
3- Scheduler Job
4- Class (same result as creating a class from the class wizard)
5- Color Theme
6- Panel
7- Skin
For some of these we have home pages to create them (For example: Blog, Scheduler, Class,
Color Theme, Panel) so we need to decide if it's ok to provide 2 locations from where
to create them.
In addition some of the candidates above are technical things and they shouldn't be
displayed to simple users IMO: Wiki Macro, Scheduler Job, Class, Color Theme, Panel,
Skin.
Thus I'd also like to discuss having a mechanism for a Template Provider to say to
whom it's addressed. Could be done by adding an "Audience" field to the
Template Provider class.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
30 Nov
30 Nov
5:24 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 17:12, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi,
I think we should provide default template providers in default XE. This
thread is about deciding which ones to have by default.
+1 for the concept. See my comments below.
Candidates:
==========
1- Wiki Macro
2- Blog Post
3- Scheduler Job
4- Class (same result as creating a class from the class wizard)
5- Color Theme
6- Panel
7- Skin
We might also want to have a "user" template, if that's doable with the
current mechanism.
For some of these we have home pages to create them
(For example: Blog,
Scheduler, Class, Color Theme, Panel) so we need to decide if it's ok to
provide 2 locations from where to create them.
Yes, I think it's ok to have 2 locations, the same way we have more than one
way to create new pages (links to non-existent pages, "create" button...).
In addition some of the candidates above are technical things and they
shouldn't be displayed to simple users IMO: Wiki
Macro, Scheduler Job,
Class, Color Theme, Panel, Skin.
Thus I'd also like to discuss having a mechanism for a Template Provider to
say to whom it's addressed. Could be done by adding an "Audience" field to
the Template Provider class.
That's not necessarily needed. There are already 2 mechanisms that can be
leveraged in order to handle this use case:
- The ability to restrict a template to a given space -> the ColorTheme
template could be provided only in the ColorThemes space for instance
- The $blacklistedSpaces variable -> it's already used to hide technical
spaces. Coupled with the above mechanism, it could be sufficient
Thus I'm not sure that we need an additional field. Let's first use (and if
needed improve) the existing mechanisms.
Guillaume
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
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5:34 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
That makes a colortheme template provider quite useless since there's already a way to
create color themes from the color theme space... ok it allows a user to create a new
theme when viewing another theme, sure, but that use case is not the main one IMO and
it's covered by the create color theme feature of the color them webhome.
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 17:12, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
I hesitated adding it to the list since I don't think it' a good thing to have. I
think that when we have specialized UI it's better to not have a template provider, or
maybe better to redirect to the specialized UI.
Hi,
I think we should provide default template providers in default XE. This
thread is about deciding which ones to have by default.
+1 for the concept. See my comments below.
Candidates:
==========
1- Wiki Macro
2- Blog Post
3- Scheduler Job
4- Class (same result as creating a class from the class wizard)
5- Color Theme
6- Panel
7- Skin
We might also want to have a "user" template, if that's doable with the
current mechanism. For some of
these we have home pages to create them (For example: Blog,
Scheduler, Class, Color Theme, Panel) so we need to decide if it's ok to
provide 2 locations from where to create them.
Yes, I think it's ok to have 2 locations, the same way we have more than one
way to create new pages (links to non-existent pages, "create" button...).
In addition some of the candidates above are technical things and they
shouldn't be displayed to simple users IMO:
Wiki Macro, Scheduler Job,
Class, Color Theme, Panel, Skin.
Thus I'd also like to discuss having a mechanism for a Template Provider to
say to whom it's addressed. Could be done by adding an "Audience" field to
the Template Provider class.
That's not necessarily needed. There are already 2 mechanisms that can be
leveraged in order to handle this use case:
- The ability to restrict a template to a given space -> the ColorTheme
template could be provided only in the ColorThemes space for instance - The $blacklistedSpaces variable -> it's
already used to hide technical
spaces. Coupled with the above mechanism, it could be sufficient
See previous comment. Template providers are not really useful when restricted to a space
IMO.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thus I'm not sure that we need an additional field. Let's first use (and if
needed improve) the existing mechanisms.
Guillaume
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
5:47 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
I think we need to be careful with our choice here, having too much
entries in the global list of available templates can make the page
creation look complex.
IMHO some applications would deserve it. The blog for example, but
IIRC it's made to allow to have 1 space / 1 blog (at least it's been
asked several times). Other applications like a meeting manager or a
todo manager would definitely get my +1 to be suggested everywhere in
the wiki, provided those apps handles objects coming from the entire
wiki of course.
Thanks,
JV.
That's not necessarily needed. There are
already 2 mechanisms that can be
leveraged in order to handle this use case:
- The ability to restrict a template to a given space -> the ColorTheme
template could be provided only in the ColorThemes space for instance
That makes a colortheme template provider quite useless since there's already a way
to create color themes from the color theme space... ok it allows a user to create a new
theme when viewing another theme, sure, but that use case is not the main one IMO and
it's covered by the create color theme feature of the color them webhome.
- The $blacklistedSpaces variable ->
it's already used to hide technical
spaces. Coupled with the above mechanism, it could be sufficient
See previous comment. Template providers are not really useful when restricted to a space
IMO.
5:53 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 17:47, Jean-Vincent Drean <jean-vincent(a)drean.org>wrote;wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
already
a way to create color themes from the color theme space... ok it
allows a user to create a new theme when viewing another theme, sure, but
that use case is not the main one IMO and it's covered by the create color
theme feature of the color them webhome.
restricted to
a space IMO.
I think we need to be careful with our choice here, having too much
entries in the global list of available templates can make the page
creation look complex.
I agree as well. Maybe we could solve that by hiding some template providers
for simple users?
Guillaume
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
> That's not necessarily needed. There are already 2 mechanisms that can
be
> leveraged in order to handle this use case:
>
> - The ability to restrict a template to a given space -> the
ColorTheme
template could be provided only in the ColorThemes space for instance
That makes a colortheme template provider quite useless since there's
> - The $blacklistedSpaces variable -> it's already used to hide
technical
spaces.
Coupled with the above mechanism, it could be sufficient
See previous comment. Template providers are not really useful when IMHO some applications would deserve it. The blog for
example, but
IIRC it's made to allow to have 1 space / 1 blog (at least it's been
asked several times). Other applications like a meeting manager or a
todo manager would definitely get my +1 to be suggested everywhere in
the wiki, provided those apps handles objects coming from the entire
wiki of course.
Thanks,
JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
5:54 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:53 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 17:47, Jean-Vincent Drean <jean-vincent(a)drean.org>wrote;wrote:
Guillaume this is exactly what I was proposing... I was probably not clear enough :)
Thanks
-Vincent
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
already
a way to create color themes from the color theme space... ok it
allows a user to create a new theme when viewing another theme, sure, but
that use case is not the main one IMO and it's covered by the create color
theme feature of the color them webhome.
restricted to
a space IMO.
I think we need to be careful with our choice here, having too much
entries in the global list of available templates can make the page
creation look complex.
I agree as well. Maybe we could solve that by hiding some template providers
for simple users?
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
> That's not necessarily needed. There are already 2 mechanisms that can
be
> leveraged in order to handle this use case:
> - The ability to restrict a template
to a given space -> the
ColorTheme
template
could be provided only in the ColorThemes space for instance
That makes a colortheme template provider quite useless since there's
> - The $blacklistedSpaces variable -> it's already used to hide
technical
spaces.
Coupled with the above mechanism, it could be sufficient
See previous comment. Template providers are not really useful when
Guillaume
> IMHO some applications would deserve it. The blog for example, but
> IIRC it's made to allow to have 1 space / 1 blog (at least it's been
> asked several times). Other applications like a meeting manager or a
> todo manager would definitely get my +1 to be suggested everywhere in
> the wiki, provided those apps handles objects coming from the entire
> wiki of course.
>
> Thanks,
> JV.
5:53 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:47 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
I don't think have 1 or 50 templates makes it harder to create a page (the empty page
should always be the default and it could be a button "Advanced..." that opens a
dialog a la Macro editor in the WYSIWYG where you have categories for template providers
and you can search for specific providers).
Actually category is probably a better idea than the "audience" field I was
hinting at in my previous mail.
Thanks
-Vincent
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
I think we need to be careful with our choice here, having too much
entries in the global list of available templates can make the page
creation look complex. That's not necessarily needed. There are
already 2 mechanisms that can be
leveraged in order to handle this use case:
- The ability to restrict a template to a given space -> the ColorTheme
template could be provided only in the ColorThemes space for instance
That makes a colortheme template provider quite useless since there's already a way
to create color themes from the color theme space... ok it allows a user to create a new
theme when viewing another theme, sure, but that use case is not the main one IMO and
it's covered by the create color theme feature of the color them webhome.
- The $blacklistedSpaces variable ->
it's already used to hide technical
spaces. Coupled with the above mechanism, it could be sufficient
See previous comment. Template providers are not really useful when restricted to a space
IMO.
IMHO some applications would deserve it. The blog for
example, but
IIRC it's made to allow to have 1 space / 1 blog (at least it's been
asked several times). Other applications like a meeting manager or a
todo manager would definitely get my +1 to be suggested everywhere in
the wiki, provided those apps handles objects coming from the entire
wiki of course.
Thanks,
JV.
6:05 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:47 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
1/ We list all the templates without "advanced" dialog
- People will read
- With 50 templates
2/ We put all the templates except "default" in a "advanced" dialog
- More clicks
- Some users won't click
I think we need to be careful with our choice here, having too much
entries in the global list of available templates can make the page
creation look complex.
I don't think have 1 or 50 templates makes it harder to create a page (the empty page
should always be the default and it could be a button "Advanced..." that opens a
dialog a la Macro editor in the WYSIWYG where you have categories for template providers
and you can search for specific providers).
Actually category is probably a better idea than the "audience" field I was
hinting at in my previous mail.
I prefer category as well but I think we're quite far from needing them.
Thanks,
JV.
5:38 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi,
I think we should provide default template providers in default XE. This thread is about
deciding which ones to have by default.
I agree, however we need to find a way to translate the name of the
provided templates, for the moment this name is stored in a simple
string property. I haven't commited templates by default since I was
reluctant to put velocity in those fields.
Candidates:
==========
I think all those candidates should be present only in specific
spaces, this way most of them would be (almost) invisible to simple
users.
1- Wiki Macro
XWiki.
2- Blog Post
Blog.
3- Scheduler Job
Scheduler.
4- Class (same result as creating a class from the
class wizard)
XWiki.
5- Color Theme
ColorThemes.
6- Panel
Panels.
7- Skin
XWiki.
For some of these we have home pages to create them (For example: Blog, Scheduler, Class,
Color Theme, Panel) so we need to decide if it's ok to provide 2 locations from where
to create them.
I think it's ok to have multiple locations allowing to create them, a
macro would be cool.
In addition some of the candidates above are technical
things and they shouldn't be displayed to simple users IMO: Wiki Macro, Scheduler Job,
Class, Color Theme, Panel, Skin.
Thus I'd also like to discuss having a mechanism for a Template Provider to say to
whom it's addressed. Could be done by adding an "Audience" field to the
Template Provider class.
I'm 0 on this, I'm not a fan of relying on this prop but space
restriction might not be enough.
Thanks,
JV.
5:43 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
On Nov 30, 2010, at 5:38 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
I don't like it. The point of this Add menu is to make it extra *simple* to create new
pages. If I have to navigate first to the right space, we fail this goal and we don't
need template providers at all since we can offer buttons to create objects from the
space's webhomes.
IMO we really need a way to create new pages with objects from anywhere else in the wiki.
Thanks
-Vincent
Hi,
I think we should provide default template providers in default XE. This thread is about
deciding which ones to have by default.
I agree, however we need to find a way to translate the name of the
provided templates, for the moment this name is stored in a simple
string property. I haven't commited templates by default since I was
reluctant to put velocity in those fields.
Candidates:
==========
I think all those candidates should be present only in specific
spaces, this way most of them would be (almost) invisible to simple
users. 1- Wiki Macro
XWiki.
2- Blog Post
Blog.
3- Scheduler Job
Scheduler.
4- Class (same result as creating a class from
the class wizard)
XWiki.
5- Color Theme
ColorThemes.
6- Panel
Panels.
7- Skin
XWiki.
For some of these we have home pages to create them (For example: Blog, Scheduler, Class,
Color Theme, Panel) so we need to decide if it's ok to provide 2 locations from where
to create them.
I think it's ok to have multiple locations allowing to create them, a
macro would be cool.
In addition some of the candidates above are
technical things and they shouldn't be displayed to simple users IMO: Wiki Macro,
Scheduler Job, Class, Color Theme, Panel, Skin.
Thus I'd also like to discuss having a mechanism for a Template Provider to say to
whom it's addressed. Could be done by adding an "Audience" field to the
Template Provider class.
I'm 0 on this, I'm not a fan of relying on this prop but space
restriction might not be enough.
Thanks,
JV.
5:57 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
I don't like it. The point of this Add menu is to make it extra *simple* to create
new pages. If I have to navigate first to the right space, we fail this goal and we
don't need template providers at all since we can offer buttons to create objects from
the space's webhomes.
Yes, but I don't think being able to create a ColorTheme or a Wiki
Macro from any page is improving the user experience.
Or in this case we'd need a new "User type" imho: developer. I think
the majority of the people using the advanced mode doesn't frequently
create color themes or macros.
IMO we really need a way to create new pages with objects from anywhere else in the
wiki.
We do need one, and we have one, but IMHO we don't have any app in XE
that deserves to appear everywhere except the Blog.
Thanks,
JV.
6:01 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 17:57, Jean-Vincent Drean <jean-vincent(a)drean.org>wrote;wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
We're switching to a debate about turning "simple users / advanced users"
into "user / admin / developer" here :-)
Could be the topic of a new thread (it's an interesting idea). Once we have
this, is would be much easier to target specific features towards specific
users in the wiki and it's a natural extension to what we already have.
Guillaume
I don't like it. The point of this Add menu is to make it extra *simple*
to
create new pages. If I have to navigate first to the right space, we fail
this goal and we don't need template providers at all since we can offer
buttons to create objects from the space's webhomes.
Yes, but I don't think being able to create a ColorTheme or a Wiki
Macro from any page is improving the user experience.
Or in this case we'd need a new "User type" imho: developer. I think
the majority of the people using the advanced mode doesn't frequently
create color themes or macros.
IMO we really need a way to create new pages with
objects from anywhere
else in the wiki.
We do need one, and we have one, but IMHO we don't have any app in XE
that deserves to appear everywhere except the Blog.
Thanks,
JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Guillaume Lerouge
Sales - XWiki SAS
Skype: wikibc
Office: +33 1 45 42 40 90
Mobile: +33 6 10 79 76 70
6:04 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] Providing Default Template Providers in default XE
I might be wrong, may be only developers use the Advanced mode, but
I'm not sure about that.
JV.
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 17:57, Jean-Vincent Drean <jean-vincent(a)drean.org>wrote;wrote:
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
We're switching to a debate about turning "simple users / advanced users"
into "user / admin / developer" here :-)
Could be the topic of a new thread (it's an interesting idea). Once we have
this, is would be much easier to target specific features towards specific
users in the wiki and it's a natural extension to what we already have.
Guillaume
I don't like it. The point of this Add menu is to make it extra *simple*
to
create new pages. If I have to navigate first to the right space, we fail
this goal and we don't need template providers at all since we can offer
buttons to create objects from the space's webhomes.
Yes, but I don't think being able to create a ColorTheme or a Wiki
Macro from any page is improving the user experience.
Or in this case we'd need a new "User type" imho: developer. I think
the majority of the people using the advanced mode doesn't frequently
create color themes or macros.
IMO we really need a way to create new pages with
objects from anywhere
else in the wiki.
We do need one, and we have one, but IMHO we don't have any app in XE
that deserves to appear everywhere except the Blog.
Thanks,
JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Guillaume Lerouge
Sales - XWiki SAS
Skype: wikibc
Office: +33 1 45 42 40 90
Mobile: +33 6 10 79 76 70
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
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5039
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5039
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12 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Guillaume Lerouge -
Jean-Vincent Drean -
Vincent Massol