On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: "All wikis" is not an action. I find it strange to see it under "Global actions". Maybe "Manage wikis" is better, i.e. use a verb. Thanks, Marius

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau < guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: Some remarks: - We don't use officially the "subwiki" term. We have just "Wiki", see http://markmail.org/message/cehvpds5qmljq5f7 - In Olivier's proposal there was also the name of the subwiki which was somehow interesting - There is an inconsistency between "Subwiki" and "Global actions" ... they should be similar in terms of naming structure (with or without "actions") - If you remove "Create wiki" and "Delete wiki" then I don't see such a need for the "subwiki-global" separation, since "Wiki Index" will be lonely -- We said we move "Create wiki" in the Wiki Index, but there we will have other problems in terms of displaying the option: will be make it part of the Create step? Do we create a separate button for it? How do we display it? - For wikis that allow just local users, the breadcrumb home doesn't take you to the Global home, but removing "Home" won't impact in this case, since apparently we don't display Home at all in this case. The problem is that for these cases, the users won't know how to go back to the main wiki. - Administration is a "human" wording and also it's used across our documentation and interface. Also it goes hand in hand with the Administrator user. I don't see big improvements in changing to the "Settings" wording. - There is a problem with "All Users" since in some setups, where you have local users, that link won't take you to "all" users. Again hard to say that it's really a correct separation. - Regarding the order, we should define a rule. It could either be alphabetical or usage (although that is hard to compute). With the mention that extremes are easier to access. So for example first and last items in a list are easier to access than intermediary items: so placing users after applications, because applications are more used, it will have the consequence that, being the last item in the list, it will make Users be easily to access than Applications. - Regarding the "Recent Changes" this could be see as application, so it could be available in the Application Index (kind of is, but as part of Dashboard). - The problem is that if I read my comments and I remove the P8's subwiki/global separation (since Wiki Index is alone) + remove the "Create and Delete wiki" since we say they will be available in Wiki Index, remove the Home navigation since we rely on breadcrumbs, plus we keep the same wording, but maybe change a bit the Index order, we will have P9: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33250/P9.png And it doesn't quite have much of a change in it if we compare it to the current version. This might be good or bad. Following Jan-Paul comment that we should not advertise for 'Delete wiki' and that 'Create wiki' is very rare, we might say P9 contains just the needed elements: Administration + Indexes. Since the only difference between simple users and admins would be the "Administration", we could have it last as P9.1 + try a simpler naming: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33251/P9.1.png But now we will need to find a way to Create wikis. --- Now regarding Index naming. If we use: - Manage: for example "Manage Wikis", it will be harder to make it consistent with the other Indexes, since for example User Index does not provide the management setting (they are in administration). Also for simple users, manage verb doesn't mean anything. - All: all is complicated for farm setup, where "All Users" might mean just local users, same for Applications and Pages, since they are just local, so they are not all. - Index: it is a bit more ambiguous, but it better satisfy the duality of content. - //simple: Having just "Pages", "Users", etc. can be also a solution. --- Regarding Olivier's comment about "Recent changes" (in P7). I agree that the majority of wikis provide it, still we should find a solution to what will we present to the user (Olivier suggested a livetable so I guess he doesn't know our Activity Stream). Will it redirect to Main.Activity? Which one? The local or the global one? It could be the global one since we display the wiki prefixes, but I guess this again depends on the type of wiki you are located in. Regarding P7 I don't like it especially because it's removing Page Index (and relies on a panel that can be change depending on the current Flavor) and removes Application Index (with the rationale that AppBar is complete, which it isn't and again the panels can be easily changed). Thanks, Caty

2016-11-17 16:18 GMT+01:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt;om>: I don't see this as a problem. An item could be lonely. I don't understand your question. Previously, we had a "Create wiki" link in the Wiki Index. We have removed it because we put it into the Create button instead when that button was on the top bar. Now we don't have the add button on the top bar anymore, so the "Create Wiki" link could go back to the Wiki Index. Yes, it's a "feature" :) On a farm, the system administrator may want to hide the other wikis to the users. For example, if your farm host a "cocacola" and a "pepsi" wiki, you could decide to hide this fact to their users :) I still believe it make sense to have it here. It would be the a link to the Activity Steam of the current wiki (since it's on the local items category). Indeed, it's a bit disappointing... -- Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project

Hello. I have added P8_iter4: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33255/P8_iter4.png I also have made a comparison with P9: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33256/P8_vs_P9.png To be short: - The distinction between local and global links makes sense and helps the user to understand the scope of the Index he's going to reach. - It's not because you have only one apple and several oranges that you can mix them together, ie. it's not a problem to have only one element on the "global" section (and extensions can provide more). - I have not change the wording of the items because the objective is to merge this change in 8.4.x, and we won't update documentation everywhere in such a short time. Maybe the "Main wiki" wording is not the good one, because it will not help distinguish local actions from global ones when you are on the main wiki. This is why I propose P8_iter5: http://jira.xwiki.org/secure/attachment/33258/P8_iter5.png With this version it's not clear that the Main Wiki has influence on the subwikis (regarding rights for example) but it's already a nice improvement and the drawer remains the same across wikis. I hope you will like this proposition and agree with my arguments, Thanks, Guillaume