24 Aug
2015
24 Aug
'15
2:21 p.m.
Hi devs,
I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look and
there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
document tree.
Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 / ... / MDocX
Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty Name
(pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki "Subwiki
Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main wiki.
Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
{{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child of
the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on the
same level with the main wiki.
Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although, as
Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki to
be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module, by
inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a sibling?
Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree?
Thanks,
Marius
24 Aug
24 Aug
3:09 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea
(mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi devs,
I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look and
there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
document tree.
Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 / ... / MDocX
Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty Name
(pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki "Subwiki
Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main wiki.
Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
{{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child of
the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on the
same level with the main wiki.
Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although, as
Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki to
be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module, by
inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a sibling?
Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do since we have the 2
options.
Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as special since it is special
(accounts there are different than on subwikis) so I’d be in favor of considering subwikis
as children of the main wiki.
Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree?
I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the main wiki as the parent of
all subwikis. And when there’s only one wiki (ie the main wiki), we could simply not show
the wiki level for simplicity. We could also decide to open the tree to the level below
the main wiki by default so that users don’t have to open it themselves.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Marius
4:30 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
Hi,
Especially for a groupware/workspaces use case I think is very important to
mark specially the main wiki, and display it as a parent for the other
wikis.
For a farm use case, the main wiki will not be displayed on subwikis and
the home icon will represent the local wiki homepage (but in theory the
main wiki is still a parent wiki).
Regarding consistency, I think breadcrumbs and trees should reflect the
same hierarchy. They should not be different and their representation
should reinforce the organization of pages everytime an user is using one
or the other. We cannot have discrepancies between them, because users will
be confused and will always try to process why there are differences
between the representations.
Also is not like breadcrumbs and trees are distinct displayers. With the
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12430 proposal, they will be tightly
related so consistency is a must.
Thanks,
Caty
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
wrote:
Hi devs,
I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look and
there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
document tree.
Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 / ... /
MDocX
Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty Name
(pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki "Subwiki
Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main wiki.
Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
{{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child of
the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on the
same level with the main wiki.
Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although, as
Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki to
be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module, by
inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a sibling?
Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do since we
have the 2 options.
Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as special since
it is special (accounts there are different than on subwikis) so I’d be in
favor of considering subwikis as children of the main wiki.
Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the
tree?
I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the main wiki
as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only one wiki (ie the main
wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity. We could
also decide to open the tree to the level below the main wiki by default so
that users don’t have to open it themselves.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Marius
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
2 Sep
2 Sep
1:34 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea
(mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi devs,
I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look and
there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
document tree.
Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 / ... / MDocX
Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty Name
(pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki "Subwiki
Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main wiki.
Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
{{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child of
the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on the
same level with the main wiki.
Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although, as
Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki to
be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module, by
inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a sibling?
Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do since we have the 2
options.
Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as special since it is special
(accounts there are different than on subwikis) so I’d be in favor of considering subwikis
as children of the main wiki.
Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the
tree?
I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably
show the main wiki as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only one wiki (ie the
main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity. We could also decide
to open the tree to the level below the main wiki by default so that users don’t have to
open it themselves.
I find it strange to display:
Home
|-- Sub Wiki 1
|-- Sub Wiki 2
|-- ...
|-- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then you
may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
display.
Thanks,
Marius
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Marius
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
2:22 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea
(mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi devs,
I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look and
there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
document tree.
Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 / ... / MDocX
Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty Name
(pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki "Subwiki
Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main wiki.
Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
{{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child of
the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on the
same level with the main wiki.
Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although, as
Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki to
be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module, by
inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a sibling?
Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do since we have the 2
options.
Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as special since it is special
(accounts there are different than on subwikis) so I’d be in favor of considering subwikis
as children of the main wiki.
Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the
tree?
I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably
show the main wiki as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only one wiki (ie the
main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity. We could also decide
to open the tree to the level below the main wiki by default so that users don’t have to
open it themselves.
I find it strange to display:
Home
|-- Sub Wiki 1
|-- Sub Wiki 2
|-- ...
|-- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then you
may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
display.
I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you need to open anyway.
Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree opens on the current
doc.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Marius
Thanks
-Vincent
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
3:15 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
Would this be viewed as an improvement?
Home
|-- Subwikis
|---- Sub Wiki 1
|---- Sub Wiki 2
|---- ...
|---- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document.
Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X (isolated), there
would be no "Subwikis" entry as first child. That would be the difference
when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
have the 2
options.
On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look and
> there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
> document tree.
>
> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
>
> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 / ... /
MDocX
Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty Name
(pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki "Subwiki
Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main wiki.
Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
{{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child of
the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on the
same level with the main wiki.
Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although, as
Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki to
be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module, by
inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a sibling?
Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do since we
Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as special
since it is
special (accounts there are different than on subwikis) so I’d
be in favor of considering subwikis as children of the main wiki.
Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the
tree?
I’d say the other way around. The tree should
probably show the main
wiki as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only
one wiki (ie the
main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity. We
could also decide to open the tree to the level below the main wiki by
default so that users don’t have to open it themselves.
I find it strange to display:
Home
|-- Sub Wiki 1
|-- Sub Wiki 2
|-- ...
|-- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then you
may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
display.
I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you need
to open anyway.
Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree opens
on the current doc.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Marius
Thanks
-Vincent
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
3:19 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Would this be viewed as an improvement?
Home
|-- Subwikis
|---- Sub Wiki 1
|---- Sub Wiki 2
|---- ...
|---- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document.
Still not consistent with the breadcrumb.
Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X (isolated), there
would be no "Subwikis" entry as first child. That would be the difference
when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
have the 2
options.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look and
> there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
> document tree.
>
> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
>
> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 / ... /
MDocX
Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty Name
(pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki "Subwiki
Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main wiki.
Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
{{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child of
the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on the
same level with the main wiki.
Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although, as
Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki to
be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module, by
inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a sibling?
Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do since we
Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as special
since it is
special (accounts there are different than on subwikis) so I’d
be in favor of considering subwikis as children of the main wiki.
Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the
tree?
I’d say the other way around. The tree should
probably show the main
wiki as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only
one wiki (ie the
main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity. We
could also decide to open the tree to the level below the main wiki by
default so that users don’t have to open it themselves.
I find it strange to display:
Home
|-- Sub Wiki 1
|-- Sub Wiki 2
|-- ...
|-- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then you
may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
display.
I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you need
to open anyway.
Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree opens
on the current doc.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Marius
Thanks
-Vincent
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
5:07 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
Because of the "Subwikis" pseudo-element? Even so, still looks better in
that direction.
In any way, I am not sure we even want to (or even can) be 100% consistent
with the breadcrumbs, because the breadcrumbs only show a single path in
the tree and does not care about scaling horizontally in the tree hierarchy
(i.e. siblings). However, an actual tree view would suffer from the
scalability issues you`ve mentioned because the root can have both subwikis
and documents as it's first level children, so I believe a compromise is
inevitable.
ATM we have these 2 options:
1. Lose the hierarchy between the main wiki and display it as a regular
subwiki, and the user should guess (or find out through some visual cues,
like an icon or something... or simply because of the name) that one of
them is the main wiki. There would also be scalability issues in finding
the main wiki amongst 30 other wikis. Sure, search/filtering would be a
solution, but I am afraid that such an operation would be language
dependent (searching for a translated string).
1.1 Note that we would also lose the breadcrumb's hierarchy information for
subwikis, since we would not be showing the main wiki in te breadcrumbs any
more, to be consistent with the tree. A sort of revert to what we were
previously doing.
2. Lose a fraction of the consistency by having the extra "Subwikis" (or
call it whatever we want) pseudo-element showing up in the tree that will
not be displayed in the breadcrumbs, though I am not sure anybody would
want/like to see such an entry in the breadcrumbs of any subwiki document.
Other ideas?
That's all I got right now.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Would this be viewed as an improvement?
Home
|-- Subwikis
|---- Sub Wiki 1
|---- Sub Wiki 2
|---- ...
|---- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document.
Still not consistent with the breadcrumb.
Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X (isolated), there
would be no "Subwikis" entry as first child. That would be the difference
when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
and
On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi devs,
> >>
> >> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look > >> there may be an inconsistency with
the hierarchy displayed by the
> >> document tree.
> >>
> >> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
> >>
> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 /
...
/
> MDocX
> >>
> >> Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
> >>
> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty Name
> >> (pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
> >>
> >> After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
> >> the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki "Subwiki
> >> Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main wiki.
> >>
> >> Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
> >>
> >> {{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
> >>
> >> he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child
of
> >> the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on
the
> >> same level with the main wiki.
> >>
> >> Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
> >> document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although, as
> >> Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki to
> >> be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module,
by
> >> inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
> >>
> >> WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a sibling?
> >
> > Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do since we
> have the 2 options.
> >
> > Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as special
> since it is special (accounts there are different than on subwikis) so
I’d
> be in favor of considering subwikis as
children of the main wiki.
> >
> >> Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree?
> >
>
> > I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the main
> wiki as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only one wiki (ie
the
> main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki
level for simplicity. We
> could also decide to open the tree to the level below the main wiki by
> default so that users don’t have to open it themselves.
>
> I find it strange to display:
>
> Home
> |-- Sub Wiki 1
> |-- Sub Wiki 2
> |-- ...
> |-- Sub Wiki N
> |-- Document 1
> |-- Document 2
> |-- ...
> |-- Document N
>
> Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then you
> may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
> display.
> I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you need
> to open anyway.
>
> Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree
opens
on the
current doc.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Marius
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Thanks
-Vincent
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
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14 Sep
14 Sep
5:42 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
Hi,
I've been thinking a lot about this (while also considering the discussion
about the "Main" space in the other discussion thread). To me, ideally,
there is one and only one hierarchy, which is consistent everywhere. As
discussed at length already, this poses a challenge for at several reasons:
1. Technically, there is no hierarchy relationship between the main wiki
and sub-wikis. However, in practice the main wiki often plays the role of a
portal.
1. This means that rights will not be inherited between the main wiki
and sub-wikis, which poses a coherency issue
2. Having a global breadcrumb puts 2 different things at the same level
under the home page of the main wiki: top-level spaces in the main wiki on
one hand, sub-wiki home pages on the other hand
1. This is solved for some implementations by simply having one wiki,
without any sub-wikis, and relying only on the nested spaces mechanism to
handle things
2. A potential converse would be to have just a global home page,
then use sub-wikis for everything (effectively eliminating the
portal), but
this would cause myriad of issues when using the global search, accessing
user profiles and so on.
In the end, I think what this boils down to is an ongoing conflict between
2 ways of organizing information inside of XWiki:
1. The Farm paradigm, where you create sub-wikis for everything
2. The Nested Spaces paradigm, where you have just one big wiki with
spaces, sub-spaces and so on
On a daily basis, it's already difficult to tell users when they should
create a sub-wiki versus a space. This is going to be even harder with
Nested Spaces. In my view, many of our discussions come from a tension
between these 2 ways of organizing content inside of XWiki.
Obviously, going all in for one of these 2 ways would make choices much
simpler for the future but cause a retro-compatibility nightmare... All
this to say that I'm not sure which compromise is best for the breadcrumb
:-)
Food for thought,
Guillaume
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Because of the "Subwikis" pseudo-element?
Even so, still looks better in
that direction.
In any way, I am not sure we even want to (or even can) be 100% consistent
with the breadcrumbs, because the breadcrumbs only show a single path in
the tree and does not care about scaling horizontally in the tree hierarchy
(i.e. siblings). However, an actual tree view would suffer from the
scalability issues you`ve mentioned because the root can have both subwikis
and documents as it's first level children, so I believe a compromise is
inevitable.
ATM we have these 2 options:
1. Lose the hierarchy between the main wiki and display it as a regular
subwiki, and the user should guess (or find out through some visual cues,
like an icon or something... or simply because of the name) that one of
them is the main wiki. There would also be scalability issues in finding
the main wiki amongst 30 other wikis. Sure, search/filtering would be a
solution, but I am afraid that such an operation would be language
dependent (searching for a translated string).
1.1 Note that we would also lose the breadcrumb's hierarchy information for
subwikis, since we would not be showing the main wiki in te breadcrumbs any
more, to be consistent with the tree. A sort of revert to what we were
previously doing.
2. Lose a fraction of the consistency by having the extra "Subwikis" (or
call it whatever we want) pseudo-element showing up in the tree that will
not be displayed in the breadcrumbs, though I am not sure anybody would
want/like to see such an entry in the breadcrumbs of any subwiki document.
Other ideas?
That's all I got right now.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
vincent(a)massol.net
>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
>> mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com ))
Name
need
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Marius
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> devs(a)xwiki.org
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.xwiki.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdevs&signature=5e2b6f767b5ff9fb>
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On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Of course, when displaying the tree
only for Sub Wiki X (isolated),
there
Would this be viewed as an improvement?
Home
|-- Subwikis
|---- Sub Wiki 1
|---- Sub Wiki 2
|---- ...
|---- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document.
Still not consistent with the breadcrumb.
> would be no "Subwikis" entry as
first child. That would be the
difference
when
displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net
> wrote:
>
wrote:
> > >> Hi devs,
> >>
> >> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should look
and
> >> there may be an inconsistency with
the hierarchy displayed by the
> >> document tree.
> >>
> >> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
> >>
> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 /
...
/
>> MDocX
>> >>
>> >> Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
>> >>
>> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty >> >> (pointing to the subwiki home
page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
>> >>
>> >> After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a subwiki
>> >> the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki
"Subwiki
>> >> Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main
wiki.
>> >>
>> >> Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
>> >>
>> >> {{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
>> >>
>> >> he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a
child
of
>> >> the main wiki but a top level
node (a child of the "farm"), on the
>> >> same level with the main wiki.
>> >>
>> >> Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
>> >> document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, although,
as
>> >> Edy pointed out, there are
places where we consider the main wiki
to
>> >> be the "parent" of
the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization module,
by
>> >> inheriting access rights from
the main wiki).
>> >>
>> >> WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a
sibling?
>>
>> > Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do since
we
> have
the 2 options.
> > > Personally I think it’s
interesting to mark the main wiki as special
> since it is special (accounts there are different than on subwikis) so
I’d
> be in favor of considering subwikis as
children of the main wiki.
> > >> Should the breadcrumb be
synchronized with the tree?
> >
> > I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the main
> wiki as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only one wiki (ie
the
>> main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity. We
>> could also decide to open the tree to the level below the main wiki by
>> default so that users don’t have to open it themselves.
>>
>> I find it strange to display:
>>
>> Home
>> |-- Sub Wiki 1
>> |-- Sub Wiki 2
>> |-- ...
>> |-- Sub Wiki N
>> |-- Document 1
>> |-- Document 2
>> |-- ...
>> |-- Document N
>>
>> Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then you
>> may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
>> display.
>> I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you > to
open anyway.
>
> Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree
opens
>> on the current doc.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>> >>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.xwiki.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdevs&signature=5e2b6f767b5ff9fb>
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http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.xwiki.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdevs&signature=5e2b6f767b5ff9fb>
6:36 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
2015-09-14 17:42 GMT+02:00 Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com>om>:
Hi,
I've been thinking a lot about this (while also considering the discussion
about the "Main" space in the other discussion thread). To me, ideally,
there is one and only one hierarchy, which is consistent everywhere. As
discussed at length already, this poses a challenge for at several reasons:
1. Technically, there is no hierarchy relationship between the main wiki
and sub-wikis. However, in practice the main wiki often plays the role
of a
portal.
1. This means that rights will not be inherited between the main wiki
and sub-wikis, which poses a coherency issue
That is wrong. The rights DO inherit between the main wiki sub-wikis, at
least since the Denis' module has been written.
2. Having a global breadcrumb puts 2 different
things at the same level
under the home page of the main wiki: top-level spaces in the main wiki
on
one hand, sub-wiki home pages on the other hand
1. This is solved for some implementations by simply having one wiki,
without any sub-wikis, and relying only on the nested spaces
mechanism to
handle things
2. A potential converse would be to have just a global home page,
then use sub-wikis for everything (effectively eliminating the
portal), but
this would cause myriad of issues when using the global search,
accessing
user profiles and so on.
In the end, I think what this boils down to is an ongoing conflict between
2 ways of organizing information inside of XWiki:
1. The Farm paradigm, where you create sub-wikis for everything
2. The Nested Spaces paradigm, where you have just one big wiki with
spaces, sub-spaces and so on
On a daily basis, it's already difficult to tell users when they should
create a sub-wiki versus a space. This is going to be even harder with
Nested Spaces. In my view, many of our discussions come from a tension
between these 2 ways of organizing content inside of XWiki.
Obviously, going all in for one of these 2 ways would
make choices much
simpler for the future but cause a retro-compatibility nightmare... All
this to say that I'm not sure which compromise is best for the breadcrumb
:-)
Food for thought,
Guillaume
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com
subwiki
the
<
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
Because of the "Subwikis"
pseudo-element? Even so, still looks better in
that direction.
In any way, I am not sure we even want to (or even can) be 100%
consistent
with the breadcrumbs, because the breadcrumbs
only show a single path in
the tree and does not care about scaling horizontally in the tree
hierarchy
(i.e. siblings). However, an actual tree view
would suffer from the
scalability issues you`ve mentioned because the root can have both
subwikis
and documents as it's first level children,
so I believe a compromise is
inevitable.
ATM we have these 2 options:
1. Lose the hierarchy between the main wiki and display it as a regular
subwiki, and the user should guess (or find out through some visual cues,
like an icon or something... or simply because of the name) that one of
them is the main wiki. There would also be scalability issues in finding
the main wiki amongst 30 other wikis. Sure, search/filtering would be a
solution, but I am afraid that such an operation would be language
dependent (searching for a translated string).
1.1 Note that we would also lose the breadcrumb's hierarchy information
for
subwikis, since we would not be showing the main
wiki in te breadcrumbs
any
more, to be consistent with the tree. A sort of
revert to what we were
previously doing.
2. Lose a fraction of the consistency by having the extra "Subwikis" (or
call it whatever we want) pseudo-element showing up in the tree that will
not be displayed in the breadcrumbs, though I am not sure anybody would
want/like to see such an entry in the breadcrumbs of any subwiki
document.
Other ideas?
That's all I got right now.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
vincent(a)massol.net
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
there
Would this be viewed as an improvement?
Home
|-- Subwikis
|---- Sub Wiki 1
|---- Sub Wiki 2
|---- ...
|---- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document.
Still not consistent with the breadcrumb.
>
> Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X (isolated), > would be no "Subwikis" entry as
first child. That would be the
difference
> > when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
> >
> > I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
vincent(a)massol.net
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> >> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com(mailto: ))
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi devs,
> >> >>
> >> >> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should
look
and
Name
> >> >> (pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
> >> >>
> >> >> After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a > >> there may be an inconsistency with
the hierarchy displayed by the
> >> document tree.
> >>
> >> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
> >>
> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 /
...
/
>> MDocX
>> >>
>> >> Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
>> >>
>> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty > >> >> the user might think that
the document MDoc1 and the wiki
"Subwiki
> >> >> Pretty Name" are on
the same level: both children of the main
wiki.
>>
>>
>> >> Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
>> >>
>> >> {{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
>> >>
>> >> he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a
child
of
> >> >> the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the
"farm"), on > >> >> same level with the main
wiki.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
> >> >> document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis,
although,
as
module,
>> >> Edy pointed out, there are
places where we consider the main wiki
to
> >> >> be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the
authorization by
since
>> >> inheriting access rights from
the main wiki).
>> >>
>> >> WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a
sibling?
> >> >
> >> > Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do we
> >> have the 2 options.
> >> >
> >> > Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as
special
> >> since it is special (accounts there
are different than on subwikis)
so
> I’d
> >> be in favor of considering subwikis as children of the main wiki.
> >> >
> >> >> Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree?
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the
main
> >> wiki as the parent of all subwikis.
And when there’s only one wiki
(ie
> the
> >> main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity.
We
> >> could also decide to open the tree
to the level below the main wiki
by
> >> default so that users don’t have to
open it themselves.
> >>
> >> I find it strange to display:
> >>
> >> Home
> >> |-- Sub Wiki 1
> >> |-- Sub Wiki 2
> >> |-- ...
> >> |-- Sub Wiki N
> >> |-- Document 1
> >> |-- Document 2
> >> |-- ...
> >> |-- Document N
> >>
> >> Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then
you
>>
may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
>> display.
>> I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you
need
> to
open anyway.
>
> Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree
opens
>> on the current doc.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Marius
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> devs(a)xwiki.org
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
< _______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
< 
7:02 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
<gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
--
Thomas Mortagne
2015-09-14 17:42 GMT+02:00 Guillaume Lerouge
<guillaume(a)xwiki.com>om>:
Yes rights are is inherited since 4.0. Most authenticators also
usually fallback on main wiki.
So right now there is a hierarchy relationship between main wiki and
sub-wikis at least in several important places.
Hi,
I've been thinking a lot about this (while also considering the discussion
about the "Main" space in the other discussion thread). To me, ideally,
there is one and only one hierarchy, which is consistent everywhere. As
discussed at length already, this poses a challenge for at several reasons:
1. Technically, there is no hierarchy relationship between the main wiki
and sub-wikis. However, in practice the main wiki often plays the role
of a
portal.
1. This means that rights will not be inherited between the main wiki
and sub-wikis, which poses a coherency issue
That is wrong. The rights DO inherit between the main wiki sub-wikis, at
least since the Denis' module has been written. 2. Having a global breadcrumb puts 2 different
things at the same level
under the home page of the main wiki: top-level spaces in the main wiki
on
one hand, sub-wiki home pages on the other hand
1. This is solved for some implementations by simply having one wiki,
without any sub-wikis, and relying only on the nested spaces
mechanism to
handle things
2. A potential converse would be to have just a global home page,
then use sub-wikis for everything (effectively eliminating the
portal), but
this would cause myriad of issues when using the global search,
accessing
user profiles and so on.
In the end, I think what this boils down to is an ongoing conflict between
2 ways of organizing information inside of XWiki:
1. The Farm paradigm, where you create sub-wikis for everything
2. The Nested Spaces paradigm, where you have just one big wiki with
spaces, sub-spaces and so on
On a daily basis, it's already difficult to tell users when they should
create a sub-wiki versus a space. This is going to be even harder with
Nested Spaces. In my view, many of our discussions come from a tension
between these 2 ways of organizing content inside of XWiki.
Obviously, going all in for one of these 2 ways
would make choices much
simpler for the future but cause a retro-compatibility nightmare... All
this to say that I'm not sure which compromise is best for the breadcrumb
:-)
Food for thought,
Guillaume
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com
subwiki
the
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
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_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs Because of the "Subwikis"
pseudo-element? Even so, still looks better in
that direction.
In any way, I am not sure we even want to (or even can) be 100%
consistent
with the breadcrumbs, because the breadcrumbs
only show a single path in
the tree and does not care about scaling horizontally in the tree
hierarchy
(i.e. siblings). However, an actual tree view
would suffer from the
scalability issues you`ve mentioned because the root can have both
subwikis
and documents as it's first level children,
so I believe a compromise is
inevitable.
ATM we have these 2 options:
1. Lose the hierarchy between the main wiki and display it as a regular
subwiki, and the user should guess (or find out through some visual cues,
like an icon or something... or simply because of the name) that one of
them is the main wiki. There would also be scalability issues in finding
the main wiki amongst 30 other wikis. Sure, search/filtering would be a
solution, but I am afraid that such an operation would be language
dependent (searching for a translated string).
1.1 Note that we would also lose the breadcrumb's hierarchy information
for
subwikis, since we would not be showing the main
wiki in te breadcrumbs
any
more, to be consistent with the tree. A sort of
revert to what we were
previously doing.
2. Lose a fraction of the consistency by having the extra "Subwikis" (or
call it whatever we want) pseudo-element showing up in the tree that will
not be displayed in the breadcrumbs, though I am not sure anybody would
want/like to see such an entry in the breadcrumbs of any subwiki
document.
Other ideas?
That's all I got right now.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
vincent(a)massol.net
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Would this be viewed as an improvement?
>
> Home
> |-- Subwikis
> |---- Sub Wiki 1
> |---- Sub Wiki 2
> |---- ...
> |---- Sub Wiki N
> |-- Document 1
> |-- Document 2
> |-- ...
> |-- Document N
>
> ...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document.
Still not consistent with the breadcrumb.
>
> Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X (isolated),
there
> would be no "Subwikis" entry as
first child. That would be the
difference
> > when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
> >
> > I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
vincent(a)massol.net
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> >> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com(mailto: ))
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi devs,
> >> >>
> >> >> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should
look
and
>> >> there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
>> >> document tree.
>> >>
>> >> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
>> >>
>> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 /
... /
>> MDocX
>> >>
>> >> Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
>> >>
>> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty
Name
> >> >> (pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
> >> >>
> >> >> After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a > >> >> the user might think that
the document MDoc1 and the wiki
"Subwiki
> >> >> Pretty Name" are on
the same level: both children of the main
wiki.
>>
>>
>> >> Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
>> >>
>> >> {{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
>> >>
>> >> he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a
child
of
> >> >> the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the
"farm"), on > >> >> same level with the main
wiki.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
> >> >> document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis,
although,
as
module,
>> >> Edy pointed out, there are
places where we consider the main wiki
to
> >> >> be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the
authorization by
since
>> >> inheriting access rights from
the main wiki).
>> >>
>> >> WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a
sibling?
> >> >
> >> > Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do we
> >> have the 2 options.
> >> >
> >> > Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as
special
> >> since it is special (accounts there
are different than on subwikis)
so
> I’d
> >> be in favor of considering subwikis as children of the main wiki.
> >> >
> >> >> Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree?
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the
main
> >> wiki as the parent of all subwikis.
And when there’s only one wiki
(ie
> the
> >> main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity.
We
> >> could also decide to open the tree
to the level below the main wiki
by
> >> default so that users don’t have to
open it themselves.
> >>
> >> I find it strange to display:
> >>
> >> Home
> >> |-- Sub Wiki 1
> >> |-- Sub Wiki 2
> >> |-- ...
> >> |-- Sub Wiki N
> >> |-- Document 1
> >> |-- Document 2
> >> |-- ...
> >> |-- Document N
> >>
> >> Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then
you
>>
may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
>> display.
>> I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you
need
>> to open anyway.
>>
>> Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree
opens
>> on the current doc.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Marius
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> devs(a)xwiki.org
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
< >>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
< _______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<
15 Sep
15 Sep
11:58 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
Hi,
I've been thinking a lot about this (while also considering the discussion
about the "Main" space in the other discussion thread). To me, ideally,
there is one and only one hierarchy, which is consistent everywhere. As
discussed at length already, this poses a challenge for at several reasons:
1. Technically, there is no hierarchy relationship between the main wiki
and sub-wikis. However, in practice the main wiki often plays the role
of a
portal.
1. This means that rights will not be inherited between the main wiki
and sub-wikis, which poses a coherency issue
2. Having a global breadcrumb puts 2 different things at the same level
under the home page of the main wiki: top-level spaces in the main wiki
on
one hand, sub-wiki home pages on the other hand
1. This is solved for some implementations by simply having one wiki,
without any sub-wikis, and relying only on the nested spaces
mechanism to
handle things
2. A potential converse would be to have just a global home page,
then use sub-wikis for everything (effectively eliminating the
portal), but
this would cause myriad of issues when using the global search,
accessing
user profiles and so on.
In the end, I think what this boils down to is an ongoing conflict between
2 ways of organizing information inside of XWiki:
1. The Farm paradigm, where you create sub-wikis for everything
2. The Nested Spaces paradigm, where you have just one big wiki with
spaces, sub-spaces and so on
On a daily basis, it's already difficult to tell users when they should
create a sub-wiki versus a space.
The reason IMO to want to create a sub-wiki is to have custom applications
installed and isolate/dedicate the subwiki to a team.
For any other reason, create a space :)
This is going to be even harder with
Nested Spaces. In my view, many of our discussions come from a tension
between these 2 ways of organizing content inside of XWiki.
Obviously, going all in for one of these 2 ways would make choices much
simpler for the future but cause a retro-compatibility nightmare... All
this to say that I'm not sure which compromise is best for the breadcrumb
:-)
Food for thought,
Guillaume
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com
subwiki
the
<
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
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Because of the "Subwikis"
pseudo-element? Even so, still looks better in
that direction.
In any way, I am not sure we even want to (or even can) be 100%
consistent
with the breadcrumbs, because the breadcrumbs
only show a single path in
the tree and does not care about scaling horizontally in the tree
hierarchy
(i.e. siblings). However, an actual tree view
would suffer from the
scalability issues you`ve mentioned because the root can have both
subwikis
and documents as it's first level children,
so I believe a compromise is
inevitable.
ATM we have these 2 options:
1. Lose the hierarchy between the main wiki and display it as a regular
subwiki, and the user should guess (or find out through some visual cues,
like an icon or something... or simply because of the name) that one of
them is the main wiki. There would also be scalability issues in finding
the main wiki amongst 30 other wikis. Sure, search/filtering would be a
solution, but I am afraid that such an operation would be language
dependent (searching for a translated string).
1.1 Note that we would also lose the breadcrumb's hierarchy information
for
subwikis, since we would not be showing the main
wiki in te breadcrumbs
any
more, to be consistent with the tree. A sort of
revert to what we were
previously doing.
2. Lose a fraction of the consistency by having the extra "Subwikis" (or
call it whatever we want) pseudo-element showing up in the tree that will
not be displayed in the breadcrumbs, though I am not sure anybody would
want/like to see such an entry in the breadcrumbs of any subwiki
document.
Other ideas?
That's all I got right now.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
vincent(a)massol.net
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
there
Would this be viewed as an improvement?
Home
|-- Subwikis
|---- Sub Wiki 1
|---- Sub Wiki 2
|---- ...
|---- Sub Wiki N
|-- Document 1
|-- Document 2
|-- ...
|-- Document N
...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document.
Still not consistent with the breadcrumb.
>
> Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X (isolated), > would be no "Subwikis" entry as
first child. That would be the
difference
> > when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
> >
> > I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
vincent(a)massol.net
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> >> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com(mailto: ))
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi devs,
> >> >>
> >> >> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should
look
and
Name
> >> >> (pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
> >> >>
> >> >> After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a > >> there may be an inconsistency with
the hierarchy displayed by the
> >> document tree.
> >>
> >> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
> >>
> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 /
...
/
>> MDocX
>> >>
>> >> Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
>> >>
>> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty > >> >> the user might think that
the document MDoc1 and the wiki
"Subwiki
> >> >> Pretty Name" are on
the same level: both children of the main
wiki.
>>
>>
>> >> Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
>> >>
>> >> {{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
>> >>
>> >> he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a
child
of
> >> >> the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the
"farm"), on > >> >> same level with the main
wiki.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
> >> >> document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis,
although,
as
module,
>> >> Edy pointed out, there are
places where we consider the main wiki
to
> >> >> be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the
authorization by
since
>> >> inheriting access rights from
the main wiki).
>> >>
>> >> WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a
sibling?
> >> >
> >> > Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do we
> >> have the 2 options.
> >> >
> >> > Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as
special
> >> since it is special (accounts there
are different than on subwikis)
so
> I’d
> >> be in favor of considering subwikis as children of the main wiki.
> >> >
> >> >> Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree?
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the
main
> >> wiki as the parent of all subwikis.
And when there’s only one wiki
(ie
> the
> >> main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity.
We
> >> could also decide to open the tree
to the level below the main wiki
by
> >> default so that users don’t have to
open it themselves.
> >>
> >> I find it strange to display:
> >>
> >> Home
> >> |-- Sub Wiki 1
> >> |-- Sub Wiki 2
> >> |-- ...
> >> |-- Sub Wiki N
> >> |-- Document 1
> >> |-- Document 2
> >> |-- ...
> >> |-- Document N
> >>
> >> Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then
you
>>
may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
>> display.
>> I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you
need
> to
open anyway.
>
> Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree
opens
>> on the current doc.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Marius
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> devs(a)xwiki.org
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
< _______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<
12:02 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
On 15 Sep 2015 at 11:59:03, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
(valicac@gmail.com(mailto:valicac@gmail.com)) wrote:
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Guillaume Lerouge
wrote:
Another reason is if you want to delegate the administration (choose the skin, color
theme, permissions, etc).
Thanks
-Vincent
Hi,
I've been thinking a lot about this (while also considering the discussion
about the "Main" space in the other discussion thread). To me, ideally,
there is one and only one hierarchy, which is consistent everywhere. As
discussed at length already, this poses a challenge for at several reasons:
1. Technically, there is no hierarchy relationship between the main wiki
and sub-wikis. However, in practice the main wiki often plays the role
of a
portal.
1. This means that rights will not be inherited between the main wiki
and sub-wikis, which poses a coherency issue
2. Having a global breadcrumb puts 2 different things at the same level
under the home page of the main wiki: top-level spaces in the main wiki
on
one hand, sub-wiki home pages on the other hand
1. This is solved for some implementations by simply having one wiki,
without any sub-wikis, and relying only on the nested spaces
mechanism to
handle things
2. A potential converse would be to have just a global home page,
then use sub-wikis for everything (effectively eliminating the
portal), but
this would cause myriad of issues when using the global search,
accessing
user profiles and so on.
In the end, I think what this boils down to is an ongoing conflict between
2 ways of organizing information inside of XWiki:
1. The Farm paradigm, where you create sub-wikis for everything
2. The Nested Spaces paradigm, where you have just one big wiki with
spaces, sub-spaces and so on
On a daily basis, it's already difficult to tell users when they should
create a sub-wiki versus a space.
The reason IMO to want to create a sub-wiki is to have custom applications
installed and isolate/dedicate the subwiki to a team.
For any other reason, create a space :) This is going
to be even harder with
Nested Spaces. In my view, many of our discussions come from a tension
between these 2 ways of organizing content inside of XWiki.
Obviously, going all in for one of these 2 ways would make choices much
simpler for the future but cause a retro-compatibility nightmare... All
this to say that I'm not sure which compromise is best for the breadcrumb
:-)
Food for thought,
Guillaume
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Eduard Moraru
wrote:
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com
subwiki
the
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs Because of the "Subwikis"
pseudo-element? Even so, still looks better in
that direction.
In any way, I am not sure we even want to (or even can) be 100%
consistent
with the breadcrumbs, because the breadcrumbs
only show a single path in
the tree and does not care about scaling horizontally in the tree
hierarchy
(i.e. siblings). However, an actual tree view
would suffer from the
scalability issues you`ve mentioned because the root can have both
subwikis
and documents as it's first level children,
so I believe a compromise is
inevitable.
ATM we have these 2 options:
1. Lose the hierarchy between the main wiki and display it as a regular
subwiki, and the user should guess (or find out through some visual cues,
like an icon or something... or simply because of the name) that one of
them is the main wiki. There would also be scalability issues in finding
the main wiki amongst 30 other wikis. Sure, search/filtering would be a
solution, but I am afraid that such an operation would be language
dependent (searching for a translated string).
1.1 Note that we would also lose the breadcrumb's hierarchy information
for
subwikis, since we would not be showing the main
wiki in te breadcrumbs
any
more, to be consistent with the tree. A sort of
revert to what we were
previously doing.
2. Lose a fraction of the consistency by having the extra "Subwikis" (or
call it whatever we want) pseudo-element showing up in the tree that will
not be displayed in the breadcrumbs, though I am not sure anybody would
want/like to see such an entry in the breadcrumbs of any subwiki
document.
Other ideas?
That's all I got right now.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
vincent(a)massol.net
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru
wrote:
> Would this be viewed as an improvement?
>
> Home
> |-- Subwikis
> |---- Sub Wiki 1
> |---- Sub Wiki 2
> |---- ...
> |---- Sub Wiki N
> |-- Document 1
> |-- Document 2
> |-- ...
> |-- Document N
>
> ...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document.
Still not consistent with the breadcrumb.
>
> Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X (isolated),
there
> would be no "Subwikis" entry as
first child. That would be the
difference
> > when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
> >
> > I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
vincent(a)massol.net
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> >> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com(mailto: ))
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi devs,
> >> >>
> >> >> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should
look
and
>> >> there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the
>> >> document tree.
>> >>
>> >> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
>> >>
>> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 /
... /
>> MDocX
>> >>
>> >> Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
>> >>
>> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty
Name
> >> >> (pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX
> >> >>
> >> >> After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a > >> >> the user might think that
the document MDoc1 and the wiki
"Subwiki
> >> >> Pretty Name" are on
the same level: both children of the main
wiki.
>>
>>
>> >> Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
>> >>
>> >> {{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
>> >>
>> >> he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a
child
of
> >> >> the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the
"farm"), on > >> >> same level with the main
wiki.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g.
> >> >> document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis,
although,
as
module,
>> >> Edy pointed out, there are
places where we consider the main wiki
to
> >> >> be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the
authorization by
since
>> >> inheriting access rights from
the main wiki).
>> >>
>> >> WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a
sibling?
> >> >
> >> > Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do we
> >> have the 2 options.
> >> >
> >> > Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as
special
> >> since it is special (accounts there
are different than on subwikis)
so
> I’d
> >> be in favor of considering subwikis as children of the main wiki.
> >> >
> >> >> Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree?
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the
main
> >> wiki as the parent of all subwikis.
And when there’s only one wiki
(ie
> the
> >> main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity.
We
> >> could also decide to open the tree
to the level below the main wiki
by
> >> default so that users don’t have to
open it themselves.
> >>
> >> I find it strange to display:
> >>
> >> Home
> >> |-- Sub Wiki 1
> >> |-- Sub Wiki 2
> >> |-- ...
> >> |-- Sub Wiki N
> >> |-- Document 1
> >> |-- Document 2
> >> |-- ...
> >> |-- Document N
> >>
> >> Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then
you
>>
may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
>> display.
>> I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you
need
>> to open anyway.
>>
>> Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree
opens
>> on the current doc.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Marius
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> devs(a)xwiki.org
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
< >>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
< _______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
<
1:03 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
2015-09-15 12:02 GMT+02:00 vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
On 15 Sep 2015 at 11:59:03, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (valicac(a)gmail.com
(mailto:valicac@gmail.com)) wrote:
applications
Nope, you can do that in a space too.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Guillaume
Lerouge
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been thinking a lot about this (while also considering the
discussion
> about the "Main" space in the
other discussion thread). To me, ideally,
> there is one and only one hierarchy, which is consistent everywhere. As
> discussed at length already, this poses a challenge for at several
reasons:
>
> 1. Technically, there is no hierarchy relationship between the main
wiki
> and sub-wikis. However, in practice the main
wiki often plays the role
> of a
> portal.
> 1. This means that rights will not be inherited between the main wiki
> and sub-wikis, which poses a coherency issue
> 2. Having a global breadcrumb puts 2 different things at the same level
> under the home page of the main wiki: top-level spaces in the main wiki
> on
> one hand, sub-wiki home pages on the other hand
> 1. This is solved for some implementations by simply having one wiki,
> without any sub-wikis, and relying only on the nested spaces
> mechanism to
> handle things
> 2. A potential converse would be to have just a global home page,
> then use sub-wikis for everything (effectively eliminating the
> portal), but
> this would cause myriad of issues when using the global search,
> accessing
> user profiles and so on.
>
> In the end, I think what this boils down to is an ongoing conflict
between
2 ways of
organizing information inside of XWiki:
1. The Farm paradigm, where you create sub-wikis for everything
2. The Nested Spaces paradigm, where you have just one big wiki with
spaces, sub-spaces and so on
On a daily basis, it's already difficult to tell users when they should
create a sub-wiki versus a space.
The reason IMO to want to create a sub-wiki is to have custom installed and isolate/dedicate the subwiki to a
team.
For any other reason, create a space :)
Another reason is if you want to delegate the administration (choose the
skin, color theme, permissions, etc).
Thanks
-Vincent
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--
Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
> This is going to be even harder with
> Nested Spaces. In my view, many of our discussions come from a tension
> between these 2 ways of organizing content inside of XWiki.
>
> Obviously, going all in for one of these 2 ways would make choices much
> simpler for the future but cause a retro-compatibility nightmare... All
> this to say that I'm not sure which compromise is best for the
breadcrumb
> :-)
>
> Food for thought,
>
> Guillaume
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Eduard Moraru
> wrote:
>
> > Because of the "Subwikis" pseudo-element? Even so, still looks
better in
> > that direction.
> >
> > In any way, I am not sure we even want to (or even can) be 100%
> consistent
> > with the breadcrumbs, because the breadcrumbs only show a single
path
in
> > the tree and does not care about
scaling horizontally in the tree
> hierarchy
> > (i.e. siblings). However, an actual tree view would suffer from the
> > scalability issues you`ve mentioned because the root can have both
> subwikis
> > and documents as it's first level children, so I believe a
compromise is
> > inevitable.
> >
> > ATM we have these 2 options:
> >
> > 1. Lose the hierarchy between the main wiki and display it as a
regular
> > subwiki, and the user should guess (or
find out through some visual
cues,
> > like an icon or something... or simply
because of the name) that one
of
> > them is the main wiki. There would also
be scalability issues in
finding
> > the main wiki amongst 30 other wikis.
Sure, search/filtering would
be a
> > solution, but I am afraid that such an
operation would be language
> > dependent (searching for a translated string).
> > 1.1 Note that we would also lose the breadcrumb's hierarchy
information
> for
> > subwikis, since we would not be showing the main wiki in te
breadcrumbs
> any
> > more, to be consistent with the tree. A sort of revert to what we
were
> > previously doing.
> >
> > 2. Lose a fraction of the consistency by having the extra "Subwikis"
(or
> > call it whatever we want)
pseudo-element showing up in the tree that
will
> > not be displayed in the breadcrumbs,
though I am not sure anybody
would
> > want/like to see such an entry in the
breadcrumbs of any subwiki
> document.
> >
> > Other ideas?
> >
> > That's all I got right now.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru
> > > wrote:
> > > > Would this be viewed as an improvement?
> > > >
> > > > Home
> > > > |-- Subwikis
> > > > |---- Sub Wiki 1
> > > > |---- Sub Wiki 2
> > > > |---- ...
> > > > |---- Sub Wiki N
> > > > |-- Document 1
> > > > |-- Document 2
> > > > |-- ...
> > > > |-- Document N
> > > >
> > > > ...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a
document.
> > >
> > > Still not consistent with the breadcrumb.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X
(isolated),
> > there
> > > > would be no "Subwikis" entry as first child. That would be
the
> > difference
> > > > when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki.
> > > >
> > > > I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Eduard
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
> vincent(a)massol.net
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> > > >> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com) wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <
> > vincent(a)massol.net
> > > >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> > > >> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com(mailto:
> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com
> > ))
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Hi devs,
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb
should
> look
> > > and
> > > >> >> there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy
displayed
by the
> > > >> >> document tree.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Breadcrumb on the main wiki:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1
/
MDoc2 /
> > > ... /
> > > >> MDocX
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users):
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) /
Subwiki
Pretty
> > Name
> > > >> >> (pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 /
... /
SDocX
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and
on a
> subwiki
> > > >> >> the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the
wiki
> "Subwiki
> > > >> >> Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children
of the main
> wiki.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Next if the user tries the document tree macro using:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> {{documentTree showWikis="true" /}}
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is
not actually a
child
> > of
> > > >> >> the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the
"farm"),
on
> the
> > > >> >> same level with the main wiki.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model
(e.g.
> > > >> >> document
reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis,
> although,
> > as
> > > >> >> Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the
main
wiki
> > to
> > > >> >> be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the
authorization
> module,
> > by
> > > >> >> inheriting access rights from the main wiki).
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or
just a
> > sibling?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to
do
> since
> > we
> > > >> have the 2 options.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki
as
> special
> > > >> since it is special (accounts there are different than on
subwikis)
> so
> > > I’d
> > > >> be in favor of considering subwikis as children of the main
wiki.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree?
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> > I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show
the
> main
> > > >> wiki as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only one
wiki
> (ie
> > > the
> > > >> main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for
simplicity.
> We
> > > >> could also decide to open the tree to the level below the main
wiki
> by
> > > >> default so that users don’t have to open it themselves.
> > > >>
> > > >> I find it strange to display:
> > > >>
> > > >> Home
> > > >> |-- Sub Wiki 1
> > > >> |-- Sub Wiki 2
> > > >> |-- ...
> > > >> |-- Sub Wiki N
> > > >> |-- Document 1
> > > >> |-- Document 2
> > > >> |-- ...
> > > >> |-- Document N
> > > >>
> > > >> Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis
then
> you
> > > >> may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current
> > > >> display.
> > > >> I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that
you
> > need
> > > >> to open anyway.
> > > >>
> > > >> Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the
Tree
> > > opens
> > > >> on the current doc.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks
> > > >>
> > > >> -Vincent
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Marius
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks
> > > >> > -Vincent
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Thanks,
> > > >> >> Marius
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> devs mailing list
> > > >> devs(a)xwiki.org
> > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > <
>
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> >
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > <
>
https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?ur…
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > <
>
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> >
> > >
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> > devs mailing list
> > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > <
>
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3:20 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] Inconsistency between the breadcrumb and the document tree on a subwiki
Hi,
my main point was that in our current paradigm, there can be both spaces in
the main wiki AND sub-wikis listed under the main wiki home page in the
breadcrumb, which creates a consistency issue that isn't easy to fix.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <
gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
should
applications
> installed and isolate/dedicate the subwiki to a team.
> For any other reason, create a space :)
So if the marketing team wants their own app, they get a sub-wiki, but the
sales team which didn't need an app got a space, and then you need to
switch them to their own wiki?
To me it's still not so clear when one should be chosen and not the other
:-)
Guillaume
2015-09-15 12:02 GMT+02:00 vincent(a)massol.net
<vincent(a)massol.net>et>:
role
Thanks for the clarification on this, I didn't know that rights from the
main wiki were inherited by subwikis.
On 15 Sep 2015 at 11:59:03, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (valicac(a)gmail.com
(mailto:valicac@gmail.com)) wrote:
ideally,
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Guillaume
Lerouge
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been thinking a lot about this (while also considering the
discussion
> > about the "Main" space in the other discussion thread). To me, > > there is one and only one hierarchy,
which is consistent everywhere.
As
>
discussed at length already, this poses a challenge for at several
reasons:
>
> 1. Technically, there is no hierarchy relationship between the main
wiki
> > and sub-wikis. However, in practice the main wiki often plays the > > of a
> > portal.
> > 1. This means that rights will not be inherited between the main wiki
> > and sub-wikis, which poses a coherency issue
> > 2.
Having a global breadcrumb puts 2 different things at the same
level
> > under the home page of the main wiki:
top-level spaces in the main
wiki
> on
> one hand, sub-wiki home pages on the other hand
> 1. This is solved for some implementations by simply having one wiki,
> without any sub-wikis, and relying only on the nested spaces
> mechanism to
> handle things
> 2. A potential converse would be to have just a global home page,
> then use sub-wikis for everything (effectively eliminating the
> portal), but
> this would cause myriad of issues when using the global search,
> accessing
> user profiles and so on.
>
> In the end, I think what this boils down to is an ongoing conflict
between
> > 2 ways of organizing information inside of XWiki:
> >
> > 1. The Farm paradigm, where you create sub-wikis for everything
> > 2. The Nested Spaces paradigm, where you have just one big wiki with
> > spaces, sub-spaces and so on
> >
> > On a daily basis, it's already difficult to tell users when they create a sub-wiki versus a space.
The reason IMO to want to create a sub-wiki is to have custom Another reason
is if you want to delegate the administration (choose the
skin, color theme, permissions, etc).
Nope, you can do that in a space too. Thanks
[SNIP]
-Vincent
> > This is going to be even harder with
> > Nested Spaces. In my view, many of our discussions come from a
tension
> > between these 2 ways of organizing
content inside of XWiki.
> >
> > Obviously, going all in for one of these 2 ways would make choices
much
> > simpler for the future but cause a
retro-compatibility nightmare...
All
> this
to say that I'm not sure which compromise is best for the
breadcrumb
> > :-)
> >
> > Food for thought,
> >
> > Guillaume
3385
days inactive
3407
days old
14 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Eduard Moraru -
Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Thomas Mortagne -
vincent＠massol.net