Hi Caleb, On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:42, Caleb James DeLisle <calebdelisle(a)lavabit.com Usually Vincent answers those but it looks like he doesn't have the time to do it right now.

I think that it should indeed be a separate application (same level as panels or search or tags in JIRA). As for where to put it in the sandbox, I guess as a top-level application in http://svn.xwiki.org/svnroot/xwiki/contrib/sandbox/ Guillaume

On Apr 20, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote: +1 for a top level app in platform/applications (which means a jira for it too). As for the process, I'm proposing: 1) explain what this app would do (maybe you already did?)

2) send a vote mail to include the invitation manager in XE by default (if not already done)

3) code it, you could start in the sandbox indeed or directly in platform/applications if 1) and 2) have been agreed on.

Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On Apr 20, 2010, at 2:45 PM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote: "friendInviter" which is an awkward name does not use the invitation manager Since it's meant to replace the existing invitation manager so it seems a good name for me. It's the invitation manager plugin done using the component architecture. It could also simply be called xwiki-invitation, i.e. the "Invitation" module.

like to put it in the sandbox. top level project on jira? it too). http://www.pubbs.net/201001/xwiki/60333-xwiki-devs-proposal-allow-users-to-… for our community designers same. Jerome, Caty: do you think you could comment on that? - I'm mentioning Jerome since he's the one who coded the invitation manager for XWS. We need to make sure it's not missing anything important in term of features or ease of use

- I'm mentioning Caty since she's been participating a lot to our XE design for a while Everyone should participate of course! Please all voice your opinions about what the invitation module should have both in term of features and UI. (if not already done) platform/applications if 1) and 2) have been agreed on. Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi Caleb, Caleb James DeLisle wrote: "friendInviter" which is an awkward name does not use the invitation manager xwiki-invitation sounds good to me too, as Vincent suggested. like to put it in the sandbox. top level project on jira? it too). http://www.pubbs.net/201001/xwiki/60333-xwiki-devs-proposal-allow-users-to-… for our community designers same. I couldn't find a mockup for displaying the list of invitations (pending/accepted) sent by the user.

I think this should appear somewhere on the user profile. Also, is it possible to cancel an invitation? I have two use cases in mind: * the user sends the invitation to the wrong email address * the user wants to delete invitations that haven't been accepted in a specific amount of time (e.g. the invitee is asked to register before a given date)

How is the invitation application going to work in a wiki where registration is disabled? i.e. you have to be invited to be able to register. Regarding the send invitation form, I think it would be useful to add explanatory text below each label. For instance, it's not clear that the user has to enter an email address in the "Who you are inviting:" field (can I enter multiple email addresses?). Also on the same page we should describe what happens with the invitation (the fact than an email is sent to the specified email address) and ask the user to not abuse this feature because his right to send invitations can be removed if his invitations are reported as spam.

Hope this helps, Marius (if not already done) platform/applications if 1) and 2) have been agreed on. _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Also, when you hit the Preview, you actually see that Subject and Message fields have standard content. This content should be displayed from the start and the user should have control over it.

Most of the users will leave the standard configurations alone. On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:15, Ecaterina Valica &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 08:51, Marius Dumitru Florea < > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: > >> Hi Caleb, >> >> Caleb James DeLisle wrote: >>> Another matter is what should it be named, I have been calling it >> "friendInviter" which is an awkward name >>> but invitation manager is a name which will lead to confusion since it >> does not use the invitation manager >>> plugin. >> xwiki-invitation sounds good to me too, as Vincent suggested. >> >>> Vincent Massol wrote: >>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have a working prototype of the invitation mail sender and I would >> like to put it in the sandbox. >>>>> I need to know how that should be done and should this be a separate >> top level project on jira? >>>>> Some guidance here would be great. >>>> +1 for a top level app in platform/applications (which means a jira for >> it too). >>>> As for the process, I'm proposing: >>>> 1) explain what this app would do (maybe you already did?) >>> I described what I hoped to achieve here: >>> >> http://www.pubbs.net/201001/xwiki/60333-xwiki-devs-proposal-allow-users-to-… >>> and show a mockup of its UI so that we can agree about it and get help >> for our community designers >>> There has been one here for a while, I rewrote the code but the UI is >> the same. >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/InvitationMail/FriendInviter >> >> I couldn't find a mockup for displaying the list of invitations >> (pending/accepted) sent by the user.

> > After all people accepted, do we still keep the list of invited people? Is > this a token of user's popularity? :P Just like Gmail, you could have a > limited number of people you could invite in the wiki and take care of your > followers :) we shouldn't do that, but was just an idea.

> > >> I think this should appear >> somewhere on the user profile.

>> Also, is it possible to cancel an >> invitation?

>> I have two use cases in mind: >> >> * the user sends the invitation to the wrong email address >> * the user wants to delete invitations that haven't been accepted in a >> specific amount of time (e.g. the invitee is asked to register before a >> given date) >> > If this step would be for the administrator, would be nice from the list of > accepted users, that we can apply batch operations for giving rights and > adding people in certain groups. Again, just an idea.

> > >> How is the invitation application going to work in a wiki where >> registration is disabled? i.e. you have to be invited to be able to >> register.

>> >> Regarding the send invitation form, I think it would be useful to add >> explanatory text below each label. For instance, it's not clear that the >> user has to enter an email address in the "Who you are inviting:" field >> (can I enter multiple email addresses?).

>> Also on the same page we should >> describe what happens with the invitation (the fact than an email is >> sent to the specified email address) and ask the user to not abuse this >> feature because his right to send invitations can be removed if his >> invitations are reported as spam. >> > I don't understand why you have 2 interfaces that do the same thing.

> Why > there is a version if you have edit right for the page? If you don't have > edit rights you shouldn't see a form, but just the labels and content of the > form elements, or nothing at all.

> > The first problem I see in the usability is, like Marius said, inviting > multiple people in the same step. This step is essentially for the > productivity and is working different in the view/pretendEdit right mode.

> > In the pretendEdit mode you have a textarea for entering lists of emails > with separators. The view mode has validation for the email field. Do you > plan to validate the multiple mails too?

> Also users are not very good at > following directions like "*with a comma and a space*".

> > A solution for this would be just like the way we add Tags. Provide an > overlay for entering emails one by one. This way you can validate them in > the overlay and also take care of the separators. The emails could be > deleted using the corner X.

> > The problem with this solution is if the user is experimented and he has a > standard list of emails he wants to paste, without entering one by one. We > should satisfy both use cases.

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

See below, Caleb James DeLisle wrote: Message sent, suppose the as the entire content. or reporting it as spam. matter of what it is by wrote: it would separate for http://www.pubbs.net/201001/xwiki/60333-xwiki-devs-proposal-allow-users-to-… help http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/InvitationMail/FriendInviter Is your idea because it can't currently kidding." and does In the case where registration is allowed only for invited people, you'll want for sure to cancel an invitation sent to a wrong email address. By cancel I mean just marking somehow the invitation object as "invalid". Sending a "sorry for the noise" mail is nut such a bad idea. a list of and = no modularity. registration is blocked dependency. I try removal of one causes case. Maybe this the field explaination be in line In line is best, IMO. Thanks, Marius this configure the have of the why would we measures. mode. emails you regular expression to plenty of trouble barring that I would have seems more intuitive) in copy-pasting lists of addresses I'd like to put most and implement this type have this now? has a We see all of the use cases. default _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Also I want to know if we are gonna integrate some CSS in the email content or is gonna be just simple text? Reference: Guide to CSS support in email clients http://www.campaignmonitor.com/css/ Caty On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 16:12, Ecaterina Valica &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Proposal at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/InvitationProposal Thanks, Caty On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 16:49, Caleb James DeLisle&lt;calebdelisle(a)lavabit.com > Yes. This all sounds great and easy to do using the template (I think) > Haven't investigated the CSS end but I imagine<style>blah</style> is > what they're talking about which can easily be integrated in the > template. > > Caleb > > Ecaterina Valica wrote: > >> Also I want to know if we are gonna integrate some CSS in the email >> > content > >> or is gonna be just simple text? >> >> Reference: Guide to CSS support in email clients >> http://www.campaignmonitor.com/css/ >> >> Caty >> >> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 16:12, Ecaterina Valica&lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; >> >> >>> "*evalica has invited you to join incubator.myxwiki.org*" this should >>> > be > >>> replaced with First Name and Last Name, instead of account name. These >>> messages tend to be personal and the receiver should recognize the >>> > person > >>> without knowing it's nickname. >>> >>> In my vision this is a feature that could be used by everyone and not >>> > just > >>> admins. >>> >>> Caty >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 15:17, Marius Dumitru Florea< >>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>> >>>> See below, >>>> >>>> Caleb James DeLisle wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ecaterina Valica wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Also, when you hit the Preview, you actually see that Subject and >>>>>> >>>> Message >>>> >>>>>> fields have standard content. This content should be displayed from >>>>>> > the > >>>>>> start and the user should have control over it. >>>>>> >>>>> I was thinking the mail should give some explanation of why the email >>>>> >>>> was sent, suppose the >>>> >>>>> user clears the default content and sets "buy cheap >>>>> >>>> pharmaceuticals....." as the entire content. >>>> >>>>> The mail recipient will have no way of knowing how the mail got to >>>>> > them > >>>> or reporting it as spam. >>>> >>>>> Anyway the default template is adjustable in the admin app so it's >>>>> > just > >>>> a matter of what it is by >>>> >>>>> default. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Most of the users will leave >>>>>> the standard configurations alone. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:15, Ecaterina Valica&lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 08:51, Marius Dumitru Florea< >>>>>>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Caleb, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Caleb James DeLisle wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another matter is what should it be named, I have been calling it >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "friendInviter" which is an awkward name >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> but invitation manager is a name which will lead to confusion >>>>>>>>> > since > >>>> it >>>> >>>>>>>> does not use the invitation manager >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> plugin. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> xwiki-invitation sounds good to me too, as Vincent suggested. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have a working prototype of the invitation mail sender and I >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> would >>>> >>>>>>>> like to put it in the sandbox. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I need to know how that should be done and should this be a >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> separate >>>> >>>>>>>> top level project on jira? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Some guidance here would be great. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> +1 for a top level app in platform/applications (which means a >>>>>>>>>> > jira > >>>> for >>>> >>>>>>>> it too). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As for the process, I'm proposing: >>>>>>>>>> 1) explain what this app would do (maybe you already did?) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I described what I hoped to achieve here: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> > http://www.pubbs.net/201001/xwiki/60333-xwiki-devs-proposal-allow-users-to-… > >>>>>>>>> and show a mockup of its UI so that we can agree about it and get >>>>>>>>> >>>> help >>>> >>>>>>>> for our community designers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There has been one here for a while, I rewrote the code but the UI >>>>>>>>> >>>> is >>>> >>>>>>>> the same. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/InvitationMail/FriendInviter > >>>>>>>> I couldn't find a mockup for displaying the list of invitations >>>>>>>> (pending/accepted) sent by the user. >>>>>>>> >>>>> Something I hadn't thought of, shouldn't be very hard to implement. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> After all people accepted, do we still keep the list of invited >>>>>>> >>>> people? Is >>>> >>>>>>> this a token of user's popularity? :P Just like Gmail, you could >>>>>>> > have > >>>> a >>>> >>>>>>> limited number of people you could invite in the wiki and take care >>>>>>> > of > >>>> your >>>> >>>>>>> followers :) we shouldn't do that, but was just an idea. >>>>>>> >>>>> There is nothing that advanced at the moment but it can be discussed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> I think this should appear >>>>>>>> somewhere on the user profile. >>>>>>>> >>>>> What exactly would it say in the profile. I'm somewhat resistant to >>>>> > the > >>>> idea because it can't currently >>>> >>>>> be done with modularity. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, is it possible to cancel an >>>>>>>> invitation? >>>>>>>> >>>>> Somehow stop the email en route? Send another one saying "just >>>>> > kidding"? > >>>>> When the user comes to sign up say: "Nobody really likes you we were >>>>> >>>> just kidding." >>>> >>>>> Anyway the join button currently only redirects to the registration >>>>> > page > >>>> and does >>>> >>>>> nothing special. >>>>> >>>> In the case where registration is allowed only for invited people, >>>> you'll want for sure to cancel an invitation sent to a wrong email >>>> address. By cancel I mean just marking somehow the invitation object as >>>> "invalid". Sending a "sorry for the noise" mail is nut such a bad idea. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> I have two use cases in mind: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * the user sends the invitation to the wrong email address >>>>>>>> * the user wants to delete invitations that haven't been accepted >>>>>>>> > in > >>>> a >>>> >>>>>>>> specific amount of time (e.g. the invitee is asked to register >>>>>>>> > before > >>>> a >>>> >>>>>>>> given date) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> If this step would be for the administrator, would be nice from the >>>>>>> >>>> list of >>>> >>>>>>> accepted users, that we can apply batch operations for giving rights >>>>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>>>>> adding people in certain groups. Again, just an idea. >>>>>>> >>>>> Have to change the nature of the registration process + no UI >>>>> > extensions > >>>> = no modularity. >>>> >>>>> It could be done though. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> How is the invitation application going to work in a wiki where >>>>>>>> registration is disabled? i.e. you have to be invited to be able to >>>>>>>> register. >>>>>>>> >>>>> Another use case I didn't think of. Might require API changes if >>>>> >>>> registration is blocked >>>> >>>>> by setting register permission to deny. Also will cause some kind of >>>>> >>>> dependency. I try >>>> >>>>> to resist dependencies lest every page depend on every other page and >>>>> >>>> removal of one causes >>>> >>>>> total destruction of the system. Still this sounds like a compelling >>>>> > use > >>>> case. Maybe this >>>> >>>>> should be implemented now or road mapped for later? Any thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Regarding the send invitation form, I think it would be useful to >>>>>>>> > add > >>>>>>>> explanatory text below each label. For instance, it's not clear >>>>>>>> > that > >>>> the >>>> >>>>>>>> user has to enter an email address in the "Who you are inviting:" >>>>>>>> >>>> field >>>> >>>>>>>> (can I enter multiple email addresses?). >>>>>>>> >>>>> Only if you can edit the page (admin) but I see your point. Should the >>>>> >>>> explaination be in line >>>> >>>>> or in a separate help page? >>>>> >>>> In line is best, IMO. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Marius >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Also on the same page we should >>>>>>>> describe what happens with the invitation (the fact than an email >>>>>>>> > is > >>>>>>>> sent to the specified email address) and ask the user to not abuse >>>>>>>> >>>> this >>>> >>>>>>>> feature because his right to send invitations can be removed if his >>>>>>>> invitations are reported as spam. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't understand why you have 2 interfaces that do the same >>>>>>> > thing. > >>>>> Those who have edit get special privileges (send to multiple >>>>> > addresses, > >>>> configure the >>>> >>>>> application etc.) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Why >>>>>>> there is a version if you have edit right for the page? If you don't >>>>>>> >>>> have >>>> >>>>>>> edit rights you shouldn't see a form, but just the labels and >>>>>>> > content > >>>> of the >>>> >>>>>>> form elements, or nothing at all. >>>>>>> >>>>> It is targeted toward those who don't have edit on the page. Otherwise >>>>> >>>> why would we >>>> >>>>> try to thwart spam when the user can simply edit the code and remove >>>>> > our > >>>> measures. >>>> >>>>>>> The first problem I see in the usability is, like Marius said, >>>>>>> >>>> inviting >>>> >>>>>>> multiple people in the same step. This step is essentially for the >>>>>>> productivity and is working different in the view/pretendEdit right >>>>>>> >>>> mode. >>>> >>>>> It should not be working unless the user has edit. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> In the pretendEdit mode you have a textarea for entering lists of >>>>>>> >>>> emails >>>> >>>>>>> with separators. The view mode has validation for the email field. >>>>>>> > Do > >>>> you >>>> >>>>>>> plan to validate the multiple mails too? >>>>>>> >>>>> There is server side validation, LiveValidation would need a separate >>>>> >>>> regular expression >>>> >>>>> for multiple email addresses, it's an easy change to make but will >>>>> > lead > >>>> to plenty of trouble >>>> >>>>> if the admins waht to change the email validation regular expression. >>>>> >>>> barring that I would have >>>> >>>>> to change LiveValidation which is a third party library. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Also users are not very good at >>>>>>> following directions like "*with a comma and a space*". >>>>>>> >>>>> Yes, that's something I have changed (now it's just a space since it >>>>> >>>> seems more intuitive) >>>> >>>>>>> A solution for this would be just like the way we add Tags. Provide >>>>>>> > an > >>>>>>> overlay for entering emails one by one. This way you can validate >>>>>>> > them > >>>> in >>>> >>>>>>> the overlay and also take care of the separators. The emails could >>>>>>> > be > >>>>>>> deleted using the corner X. >>>>>>> >>>>> I imagined the main use case was for admins (those with edit) >>>>> >>>> copy-pasting lists of addresses >>>> >>>>> into the page keep in mind, non admins are unable to use this feature >>>>> >>>> and I'd like to put most >>>> >>>>> of the time into features which will be used often. Maybe we could >>>>> > wait > >>>> and implement this type >>>> >>>>> of thing later on if there is desire. How important do you think it is >>>>> >>>> to have this now? >>>> >>>>>>> The problem with this solution is if the user is experimented and he >>>>>>> >>>> has a >>>> >>>>>>> standard list of emails he wants to paste, without entering one by >>>>>>> >>>> one. We >>>> >>>>>>> should satisfy both use cases. >>>>>>> >>>>> Thank you for the responses, it's always hard for me writing the code >>>>> > to > >>>> see all of the use cases. >>>> >>>>> Caleb >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Caty >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>>>>> Marius >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2) send a vote mail to include the invitation manager in XE by >>>>>>>>>> >>>> default >>>> >>>>>>>> (if not already done) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd like to have something concrete in the sandbox to vote on. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3) code it, you could start in the sandbox indeed or directly in >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> platform/applications if 1) and 2) have been agreed on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I will commit to the sandbox later today. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> devs mailing list >>>>>>>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> devs mailing list >>>>>>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>>>>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> devs mailing list >>>>>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>>>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> devs mailing list >>>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> devs mailing list >>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> devs mailing list >>>> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> devs(a)xwiki.org >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Ecaterina Valica wrote: I was thinking the mail should give some explanation of why the email was sent, suppose the user clears the default content and sets "buy cheap pharmaceuticals....." as the entire content. The mail recipient will have no way of knowing how the mail got to them or reporting it as spam. Anyway the default template is adjustable in the admin app so it's just a matter of what it is by default.

Somehow stop the email en route? Send another one saying "just kidding"? When the user comes to sign up say: "Nobody really likes you we were just kidding." Anyway the join button currently only redirects to the registration page and does nothing special.

Another use case I didn't think of. Might require API changes if registration is blocked by setting register permission to deny. Also will cause some kind of dependency. I try to resist dependencies lest every page depend on every other page and removal of one causes total destruction of the system. Still this sounds like a compelling use case. Maybe this should be implemented now or road mapped for later? Any thoughts?