[xwiki-devs] Simple Mobile Skin

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[xwiki-devs] [VOTE] Changing our...

[xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Changes to...

Ludovic Dubost

17 Feb 2012 17 Feb '12

10:30 p.m.

Hi, I've been working a while ago on a Mobile Skin which principle is the following: 1/ Light UI adapted to mobile devices, both phones and tablet (with a particular attention to tablets), giving most of the screen real estate to the page content 2/ Support all Javascript normally supported in the XWiki skin in order for any code inside pages that would use this Javascript to still work 3/ Automatic detection of mobile devices to make them switch to the mobile skin 4/ Ability to switch from mobile to normal skin 5/ compatibility with color themes I believe this approach is the right one, as XWiki instances do have significant Javascript and in order to make sure these pages work, we need to be able to accept this javascript. Of course some other improvements could be done, for example to have a mobile friendly dashboard or livetable. Now this work has had a few iterations with particularly some relooking work from Caty. The work is published here: http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/SimpleMobileSkin And the code is available here in both XAR and File-System version (for XEM): https://github.com/ldubost/xwiki-mobileskin The skin can be tested on the incubator (although there is not the automated switch) http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/34Proposal?skin=XW… I've also worked on integrating this in the platform. The commit is available in a fork on github: https://github.com/ldubost/xwiki-platform/commit/064baeb017b35e08a526029381… I'd like some comments and discussion so that we can bring this into the platform. Ludovic -- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

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Ludovic Dubost

21 Feb 21 Feb

8:30 p.m.

Any comments on the code ? What would need to be done to be able to bring this into the platform ? Ludovic 2012/2/17 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com>

...

-- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

Jerome Velociter

9:44 p.m.

Some comments : * Using $context.setLinksQueryString("skin=${xwiki.skin}") is not really acceptable. It breaks when you have AJAX. The skin could rather be determined server-side based on the cookie you set. * There are some ios-specific naming ("iosdisplaypanel, div class="ios", etc.") * The UA detection could probably be improved * You have some inline (onclick="blah") and un-namespaced (see showQuickLinks in header.vm) JS, which are respectively not respecting web standards and our dev standards (http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/DevelopmentPractices#HJavaScr…). More than those implementation details, I wonder if this is the right approach. Since the differences with colibri are not very big, I personally would prefer to see them implemented using responsive design right in colibri. Jerome On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com> wrote:

...

Any comments on the code ? What would need to be done to be able to bring this into the platform ? Ludovic 2012/2/17 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com>

-- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Jérôme Velociter Winesquare http://www.winesquare.net/

Ludovic Dubost

11:33 p.m.

Hi Jerome, 2012/2/21 Jerome Velociter <jerome(a)winesquare.net>

...

This was not really possible, as this would need to be handled in the core rather than in the view.vm template itself. Note that if the link is not set, then the view.vm template will still set it and do the redirection. It's not so easy to find the right behavior here. Now it's true that as you say below the changes versus colibri are not "huge" and maybe some "if" in colibri itself could be a great solution.

...

* There are some ios-specific naming ("iosdisplaypanel, div class="ios", etc.")

Right. can be fixed easily. The macro could be moved to macros.vm also

...

* The UA detection could probably be improved

The UA detection would be better in the core itself

...

* You have some inline (onclick="blah") and un-namespaced (see showQuickLinks in header.vm) JS, which are respectively not respecting web standards and our dev standards ( http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/DevelopmentPractices#HJavaScr… ). ok

...

More than those implementation details, I wonder if this is the right approach. Since the differences with colibri are not very big, I personally would prefer to see them implemented using responsive design right in colibri.

There are some changes though, like a quite different menu bar, but it's true that we could handle this using mostly IFs. The objective with this implementation was to be able to run as an "skin" without too much interaction with colibri. What do other developer think about an implementation right in colibri/templates directory ? This could just be done: - using a mobile.css which would be loaded for a set of user agents - some "IF" to include/exclude some templates Ludovic

...

Jerome On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com> wrote:

Any comments on the code ? What would need to be done to be able to bring this into the platform ? Ludovic 2012/2/17 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com> > > Hi, > > I've been working a while ago on a Mobile Skin which principle is the > following: > > 1/ Light UI adapted to mobile devices, both phones and tablet (with a > particular attention to tablets), giving most of the screen real estate

> the page content > 2/ Support all Javascript normally supported in the XWiki skin in order > for any code inside pages that would use this Javascript to still work > 3/ Automatic detection of mobile devices to make them switch to the

mobile

> skin > 4/ Ability to switch from mobile to normal skin > 5/ compatibility with color themes > > I believe this approach is the right one, as XWiki instances do have > significant Javascript and in order to make sure these pages work, we

need

> to be able to accept this javascript. > Of course some other improvements could be done, for example to have a > mobile friendly dashboard or livetable. > > Now this work has had a few iterations with particularly some relooking > work from Caty. > The work is published here: > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/SimpleMobileSkin > > And the code is available here in both XAR and File-System version (for > XEM): > > https://github.com/ldubost/xwiki-mobileskin > > The skin can be tested on the incubator (although there is not the > automated switch) > > >

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/34Proposal?skin=XW…

> > I've also worked on integrating this in the platform. The commit is > available in a fork on github: > > >

https://github.com/ldubost/xwiki-platform/commit/064baeb017b35e08a526029381…

I'd like some comments and discussion so that we can bring this into the platform. Ludovic -- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

-- Jérôme Velociter Winesquare http://www.winesquare.net/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

Vincent Massol

22 Feb 22 Feb

8:45 a.m.

Hi Ludovic, On Feb 21, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:

...

Any comments on the code ? What would need to be done to be able to bring this into the platform ?

I won't comment on the code since I haven't looked at it yet. As a general rule, to bring something in the platform: * We need a VOTE from a committer to propose it * But even more importantly than the VOTE we need that the committer who proposes to bring it in, commits to work on it, improve it and maintain it on the long run. What we definitely don't want to see is something that goes in the platform and stops working which would prevent us from releasing the platform since it's all released as one block and everything we release must work. Personally I'm against bringing it in the platform as it is for the following reasons: * No committer has expressed interest in becoming the "owner" of it and improving/maintaining it on the long run * There's no mechanism to check that this mobile skin is working (no tests) which means we have no automated way to verify it works when we release platform and testing manually is extra work (and we're already lacking testing power to verify XE works on various DBs/browsers) * It's too much maintenance. It has been proven in the past that we've never been able to maintain more than 1 skin (BTW I'm for brainstorming about why this is so and how can we provide more than 1 skin in the platform). Thus, without knowing the technical details, I'm in agreement with Jerome when he says that it might be better to fold this skin into the current Colibri skin, i.e. make the mobile feature a feature of the skins we develop. But even with this I'm still against bringing it in the platform till a committer steps forward and says that he's willing to improve it, fix bugs, test it when we release and maintain it in general. Again, the idea is that code developed by the XWiki Development Team is of good quality and working. This strategy is the only one I know to guarantee this. And BTW this is why we regularly remove stuff from platform and move it to the retired repository (when the feature is no longer working good enough and there are no active committers willing to work on it). Thanks -Vincent

...

Ludovic 2012/2/17 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com>

Ludovic Dubost

4:59 p.m.

2012/2/22 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>

...

Hi Ludovic, On Feb 21, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:

Any comments on the code ? What would need to be done to be able to bring this into the platform ?

I won't comment on the code since I haven't looked at it yet. As a general rule, to bring something in the platform: * We need a VOTE from a committer to propose it

That's kind of what I'm doing, except I asking for comments before we vote

...

* But even more importantly than the VOTE we need that the committer who proposes to bring it in, commits to work on it, improve it and maintain it on the long run. What we definitely don't want to see is something that goes in the platform and stops working which would prevent us from releasing the platform since it's all released as one block and everything we release must work.

I can commit to work on it and improve it. However it's going to be hard for me to maintain it on the long run. Now the way I see it is that it's quite tied to the platform and the colibri skin (as Jerome mentionned) and from my POV it has to be supported as part of it. My vision here is that we are regularly asked to support mobiles and IOS in particular. This skin is a decent balance between amount of work and decent results on mobile. It serves the need, it looks quite good. Now of course we could keep it separate from the platform, however this has some drawbacks: - no native mobile support in XWiki - complex installation because of the automated fallback system especially if you have a custom skin

...

Personally I'm against bringing it in the platform as it is for the following reasons: * No committer has expressed interest in becoming the "owner" of it and improving/maintaining it on the long run

I can spend some time getting this closer to XE standards. Maybe other commiters can help ?

...

* There's no mechanism to check that this mobile skin is working (no tests) which means we have no automated way to verify it works when we release platform and testing manually is extra work (and we're already lacking testing power to verify XE works on various DBs/browsers)

This is skin only work. Indeed there are no UI tests. Now these tests would need to be run on Safari mostly as most mobile browsers are using Safari. AFAIK at this point we have no infrastructure to run UI tests on mobile browsers. If this is a blocker it means we will never release a mobile skin. Any solution here ?

...

Thus, without knowing the technical details, I'm in agreement with Jerome

...

when he says that it might be better to fold this skin into the current Colibri skin, i.e. make the mobile feature a feature of the skins we develop. But even with this I'm still against bringing it in the platform till a committer steps forward and says that he's willing to improve it, fix bugs, test it when we release and maintain it in general. I'm +1 to folding it in colibri. It seems reasonable to do that and I

think it's very feasible (knowing the code that is changed in this skin). I'm volunteering to do this. Now if tests are needed I will need help. Now if this effort is made I'd like to make sure the committers agree that this is the right approach, as it would be quite bad to spend the time bringing in the code in colibri/templates and then refuse it for architectural reasons. I hope we all agree that some mobile specific behaviors are needed.

...

Again, the idea is that code developed by the XWiki Development Team is of good quality and working. This strategy is the only one I know to guarantee this. And BTW this is why we regularly remove stuff from platform and move it to the retired repository (when the feature is no longer working good enough and there are no active committers willing to work on it). Sure. My objective here is only to start the debate and see what would

need to be done to bring it into the platform. From the "need" point of view "mobile support" is a big + for XWiki. I personally believe that from the functional point of view this skin is a good solution so that's why I'm bringing it up.

...

Thanks -Vincent

Ludovic 2012/2/17 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com> > > Hi, > > I've been working a while ago on a Mobile Skin which principle is the > following: > > 1/ Light UI adapted to mobile devices, both phones and tablet (with a > particular attention to tablets), giving most of the screen real estate

mobile

need

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/34Proposal?skin=XW…

> > I've also worked on integrating this in the platform. The commit is > available in a fork on github: > > >

https://github.com/ldubost/xwiki-platform/commit/064baeb017b35e08a526029381…

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

Ludovic Dubost

25 Feb 25 Feb

12:50 a.m.

Hi, I've a new version of the mobile support without a separate skin. Indeed it's not too complex: https://github.com/ldubost/xwiki-platform/commit/54b56c0df8c800b09071244c11… What do the committers think of this approach ? Ludovic 2012/2/22 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com>om>:

...

2012/2/22 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>

Hi Ludovic, On Feb 21, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:

Any comments on the code ? What would need to be done to be able to bring this into the platform ?

I won't comment on the code since I haven't looked at it yet. As a general rule, to bring something in the platform: * We need a VOTE from a committer to propose it

That's kind of what I'm doing, except I asking for comments before we vote

Personally I'm against bringing it in the platform as it is for the following reasons: * No committer has expressed interest in becoming the "owner" of it and improving/maintaining it on the long run

I can spend some time getting this closer to XE standards. Maybe other commiters can help ?

* It's too much maintenance. It has been proven in the past that we've never been able to maintain more than 1 skin (BTW I'm for brainstorming about why this is so and how can we provide more than 1 skin in the platform). Thus, without knowing the technical details, I'm in agreement with Jerome when he says that it might be better to fold this skin into the current Colibri skin, i.e. make the mobile feature a feature of the skins we develop. But even with this I'm still against bringing it in the platform till a committer steps forward and says that he's willing to improve it, fix bugs, test it when we release and maintain it in general.

I'm +1 to folding it in colibri. It seems reasonable to do that and I think it's very feasible (knowing the code that is changed in this skin). I'm volunteering to do this. Now if tests are needed I will need help. Now if this effort is made I'd like to make sure the committers agree that this is the right approach, as it would be quite bad to spend the time bringing in the code in colibri/templates and then refuse it for architectural reasons. I hope we all agree that some mobile specific behaviors are needed.

Sure. My objective here is only to start the debate and see what would need to be done to bring it into the platform. From the "need" point of view "mobile support" is a big + for XWiki. I personally believe that from the functional point of view this skin is a good solution so that's why I'm bringing it up.

Thanks -Vincent

Ludovic 2012/2/17 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com>

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

Ludovic Dubost

26 Apr 26 Apr

10:27 a.m.

Hi devs, There has been no feedback on this new version of the mobile skin. It would be great if somebody looked at it as it would give us a decent mobile support out of the box Ludovic 2012/2/25 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com>

...

2012/2/22 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>

Hi Ludovic, On Feb 21, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:

Any comments on the code ? What would need to be done to be able to bring this into the platform ?

I won't comment on the code since I haven't looked at it yet. As a general rule, to bring something in the platform: * We need a VOTE from a committer to propose it

That's kind of what I'm doing, except I asking for comments before we

vote

> > * But even more importantly than the VOTE we need that the committer who > proposes to bring it in, commits to work on it, improve it and maintain

> on the long run. What we definitely don't want to see is something that

goes

> in the platform and stops working which would prevent us from releasing

the

> platform since it's all released as one block and everything we release

must

work.

I can commit to work on it and improve it. However it's going to be hard

for

me to maintain it on the long run. Now the way I see it is that it's

quite

tied to the platform and the colibri skin (as Jerome mentionned) and

from my

POV it has to be supported as part of it. My vision here is that we are regularly asked to support mobiles and IOS

particular. This skin is a decent balance between amount of work and

decent

results on mobile. It serves the need, it looks quite good. Now of course we could keep it separate from the platform, however this

has

some drawbacks: - no native mobile support in XWiki - complex installation because of the automated fallback system

especially

if you have a custom skin

Personally I'm against bringing it in the platform as it is for the following reasons: * No committer has expressed interest in becoming the "owner" of it and improving/maintaining it on the long run

I can spend some time getting this closer to XE standards. Maybe other commiters can help ?

This is skin only work. Indeed there are no UI tests. Now these tests

would

need to be run on Safari mostly as most mobile browsers are using Safari. AFAIK at this point we have no infrastructure to run UI tests on mobile browsers. If this is a blocker it means we will never release a mobile

skin.

Any solution here ? > > * It's too much maintenance. It has been proven in the past that we've > never been able to maintain more than 1 skin (BTW I'm for brainstorming > about why this is so and how can we provide more than 1 skin in the > platform). > > > Thus, without knowing the technical details, I'm in agreement with

Jerome

> when he says that it might be better to fold this skin into the current > Colibri skin, i.e. make the mobile feature a feature of the skins we > develop. But even with this I'm still against bringing it in the

platform

> till a committer steps forward and says that he's willing to improve

it, fix

bugs, test it when we release and maintain it in general.

I'm +1 to folding it in colibri. It seems reasonable to do that and I

think

it's very feasible (knowing the code that is changed in this skin). I'm volunteering to do this. Now if tests are needed I will need help. Now if this effort is made I'd like to make sure the committers agree that this

the right approach, as it would be quite bad to spend the time bringing

the code in colibri/templates and then refuse it for architectural

reasons.

I hope we all agree that some mobile specific behaviors are needed. > > Again, the idea is that code developed by the XWiki Development Team is

> good quality and working. This strategy is the only one I know to

guarantee

> this. And BTW this is why we regularly remove stuff from platform and

move

it to the retired repository (when the feature is no longer working good enough and there are no active committers willing to work on it).

Sure. My objective here is only to start the debate and see what would

need

to be done to bring it into the platform. From the "need" point of view "mobile support" is a big + for XWiki. I personally believe that from the functional point of view this skin is a good solution so that's why

I'm

bringing it up. > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > Ludovic > > > > 2012/2/17 Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com> > > > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I've been working a while ago on a Mobile Skin which principle is the > >> following: > >> > >> 1/ Light UI adapted to mobile devices, both phones and tablet (with a > >> particular attention to tablets), giving most of the screen real

estate

> >> to > >> the page content > >> 2/ Support all Javascript normally supported in the XWiki skin in

order

> >> for any code inside pages that would use this Javascript to still

work

> >> 3/ Automatic detection of mobile devices to make them switch to the > >> mobile > >> skin > >> 4/ Ability to switch from mobile to normal skin > >> 5/ compatibility with color themes > >> > >> I believe this approach is the right one, as XWiki instances do have > >> significant Javascript and in order to make sure these pages work, we > >> need > >> to be able to accept this javascript. > >> Of course some other improvements could be done, for example to have

> >> mobile friendly dashboard or livetable. > >> > >> Now this work has had a few iterations with particularly some

relooking

> >> work from Caty. > >> The work is published here: > >> > >>

http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/SimpleMobileSkin

> >> > >> And the code is available here in both XAR and File-System version

(for

> >> XEM): > >> > >> https://github.com/ldubost/xwiki-mobileskin > >> > >> The skin can be tested on the incubator (although there is not the > >> automated switch) > >> > >> > >> > >>

http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/34Proposal?skin=XW…

> >> > >> I've also worked on integrating this in the platform. The commit is > >> available in a fork on github: > >> > >> > >> > >>

https://github.com/ldubost/xwiki-platform/commit/064baeb017b35e08a526029381…

> > I'd like some comments and discussion so that we can bring this into > the > platform. > > Ludovic > > -- > Ludovic Dubost > Founder and CEO > Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ > XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com > Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost > > -- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- Ludovic Dubost Founder and CEO Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

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Jerome Velociter
Ludovic Dubost
Vincent Massol