Hello all, Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.

The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. Here’s my +1.

> > Thanks > -Vincent > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote: > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only. Remove the "not" of course. > > See http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet… . > > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote: >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet! >> >> I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share. >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data: >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: >> - IE8/9/10/11 >> - FF latest >> - Chrome latest >> - Safari latest >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? >> >> So far we have the following votes: >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net (vincent(a)massol.net (mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote: >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >>> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com (mailto:andreea.popescu@xwiki.com)) wrote: >>> >>> > Hello all, >>> > >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >>> >>> FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >>> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >>> > >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11. >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version) >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users. >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85% >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >>> > >>> > Here’s my +1. >>> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >>> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems. >>> >>> Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable. >>> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach. >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> devs(a)xwiki.org >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne -- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

IMO we should modify http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does not ?).

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote: > +1 for IE9/10/11 > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!) > > > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne >> wrote: >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 >> only. >> >> Remove the "not" of course. >> >> > >> > See >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet… >> . >> > >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. >> > >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net >> wrote: >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers >> haven’t voted yet! >> >> >> >> I’ve updated >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with >> recent market share. >> >> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show >> similar data: >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >> >> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes: >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 >> >> - FF latest >> >> - Chrome latest >> >> - Safari latest >> >> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)? >> >> >> >> So far we have the following votes: >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> -Vincent >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net (vincent(a)massol.net >> (mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >> >>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com >> (mailto:andreea.popescu@xwiki.com)) wrote: >> >>> >> >>> > Hello all, >> >>> > >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to >> propose >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >> >>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >> >>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >> >>> > >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used >> by >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and >> IE11. >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by >> Version) >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% >> users. >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - >> 20.85% >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >> >>> > >> >>> > Here’s my +1. >> >>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers. >> >>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without >> problems. >> >>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or >> it’s manageable. >> >>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the >> marketshare approach. >> >>> >> >>> Thanks >> >>> -Vincent >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> devs mailing list >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Thomas Mortagne >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Mortagne >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> devs(a)xwiki.org >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs -- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

>> >> marketshare approach. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Thanks >> >> >>> -Vincent >> >> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> devs mailing list >> >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org >> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Thomas Mortagne >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Thomas Mortagne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> devs mailing list >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > devs mailing list >> > devs(a)xwiki.org >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Mortagne >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> devs(a)xwiki.org >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs -- Thomas Mortagne

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote: > Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS > plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer s/upgrade/apply/ > available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.

>>>> not ?). >>> >>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of

>>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau >>>> wrote: >>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 >>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not

>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : >>>> > >>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not

>>>> >> only. >>>> >> >>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. >>>> >> >>>> >> > >>>> >> > See >>>> >>

>>>> >> . >>>> >> > >>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of

>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> I’ve updated >>>> >>

>>>> >> recent market share. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem

>>>> >> similar data: >>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers >>>> >> >> -

>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%

>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 >>>> >> >> - FF latest >>>> >> >> - Chrome latest >>>> >> >> - Safari latest >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10

>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded

>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: >>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 >>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 >>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Thanks >>>> >> >> -Vincent >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net (

>>>> >> (mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (

>>>> >> (mailto:andreea.popescu@xwiki.com)) wrote: >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> > Hello all, >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d

>>>> >> propose >>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at >>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions

>>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still

>>>> >> IE11. >>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop

>>>> >> Version) >>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11

>>>> >> 20.85% >>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still

>>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support

>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re

>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all

>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services

>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their

>>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like

>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use

>>>> >> problems. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at >>>> >>

>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would

>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that

>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the

>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have

>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,

>>>> >> it’s manageable. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: >>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each

>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for

>>>> >> marketshare approach. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Thanks >>>> >> >>> -Vincent >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> devs mailing list >>>> >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > -- >>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> Thomas Mortagne >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> devs mailing list >>>> >> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > devs mailing list >>>> > devs(a)xwiki.org >>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thomas Mortagne >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> devs mailing list >>>> devs(a)xwiki.org >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>> _______________________________________________ >>> devs mailing list >>> devs(a)xwiki.org >>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne -- Thomas Mortagne

My vote goes to: +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo +1 to support IE8 for Colibri My rationale: - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on modern browsers. - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a third-party JS dependency. - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even mention other companies) - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should pick Colibri Thanks, Caty On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote: > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > wrote: > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer > > > > s/upgrade/apply/ > > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9. > > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >> wrote: > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, vincent(a)massol.net < vincent(a)massol.net&gt; > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com > (mailto:thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com)) wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> IMO we should modify > >>>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does > >>>>> not ?). > >>>> > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for > older versions. > >>> > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course > >>> since that's what we are talking about here. > >>> > >>>> > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> -Vincent > >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not > support it!) > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not > IE9/10/11 > >>>>> >> only. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > See > >>>>> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet… > >>>>> >> . > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net > >>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of > committers > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated > >>>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with > >>>>> >> recent market share. > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem > to show > >>>>> >> similar data: > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > >>>>> >> >> - > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% > of users > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this > includes: > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 > is less > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded > to IE11)? > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> Thanks > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net ( > vincent(a)massol.net > >>>>> >> (mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote: > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( > andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com > >>>>> >> (mailto:andreea.popescu@xwiki.com)) wrote: > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all, > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d > like to > >>>>> >> propose > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions > are: > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still > widely used > >>>>> >> by > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to > IE10 and > >>>>> >> IE11. > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop > Share by > >>>>> >> Version) > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 > by 16.61% > >>>>> >> users. > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions > (IE8 - > >>>>> >> 20.85% > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still > significant. > >>>>> >> >>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support > only the > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re > doing except > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all > browsers and the > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services > on top of > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their > customers. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like > that we > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, > because I > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use > it without > >>>>> >> problems. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at > >>>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would > cover 70% > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that > strangely > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the > others… Not > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have > problems > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, > if that’s > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and > with > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we > try it > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden > for us or > >>>>> >> it’s manageable. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each > browser or > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for > the > >>>>> >> marketshare approach. > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list > >>>>> >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > -- > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> -- > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> devs mailing list > >>>>> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> >> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > devs mailing list > >>>>> > devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> devs mailing list > >>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> devs mailing list > >>>> devs(a)xwiki.org > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Thomas Mortagne > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas Mortagne > > > > -- > Thomas Mortagne > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru (enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote: > +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no > logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”. -1 because: A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)

D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP More elaborate answer for point B): You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains... FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003. So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle). Thanks -Vincent > Thanks, > Eduard > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote: > > > My vote goes to: > > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo > > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo > > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri > > > > My rationale: > > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on > > modern browsers. > > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see > > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is > > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a > > third-party JS dependency. > > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will > > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even > > mention other companies) > > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser > > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on > > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should > > pick Colibri > > > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > > > wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > > wrote: > > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS > > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer > > > > > > > > s/upgrade/apply/ > > > > > > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on > > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. > > > > > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9. > > > > > > >> > > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, vincent(a)massol.net < > > vincent(a)massol.net&gt; > > > wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( > > thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com > > > (mailto:thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> IMO we should modify > > > >>>>> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy > > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's > > simple > > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft > > does > > > >>>>> not ?). > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of > > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for > > > older versions. > > > >>> > > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" > > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course > > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here. > > > >>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE > > even > > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Thanks > > > >>>> -Vincent > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 > > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not > > > support it!) > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> >> wrote: > > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not > > > IE9/10/11 > > > >>>>> >> only. > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > See > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet… > > > >>>>> >> . > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net > > > >>>>> >> wrote: > > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of > > > committers > > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated > > > >>>>> >> > > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy > > with > > > >>>>> >> recent market share. > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem > > > to show > > > >>>>> >> similar data: > > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > > > >>>>> >> >> - > > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% > > > of users > > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS > > this > > > includes: > > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 > > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest > > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest > > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 > > > is less > > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded > > > to IE11)? > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: > > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks > > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net ( > > > vincent(a)massol.net > > > >>>>> >> (mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote: > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( > > > andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com > > > >>>>> >> (mailto:andreea.popescu@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all, > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d > > > like to > > > >>>>> >> propose > > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at > > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions > > > are: > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still > > > widely used > > > >>>>> >> by > > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update > > to > > > IE10 and > > > >>>>> >> IE11. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop > > > Share by > > > >>>>> >> Version) > > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 > > > by 16.61% > > > >>>>> >> users. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older > > versions > > > (IE8 - > > > >>>>> >> 20.85% > > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still > > > significant. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support > > > only the > > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re > > > doing except > > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all > > > browsers and the > > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services > > > on top of > > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their > > > customers. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like > > > that we > > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of > > people, > > > because I > > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use > > > it without > > > >>>>> >> problems. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at > > > >>>>> >> > > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if > > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would > > > cover 70% > > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that > > > strangely > > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the > > > others… Not > > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have > > > problems > > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, > > > if that’s > > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers > > and > > > with > > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that > > we > > > try it > > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a > > burden > > > for us or > > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: > > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each > > > browser or > > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for > > > the > > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks > > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list > > > >>>>> >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > -- > > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> -- > > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list > > > >>>>> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> > devs mailing list > > > >>>>> > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> -- > > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> devs mailing list > > > >>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> devs mailing list > > > >>>> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Thomas Mortagne > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Thomas Mortagne > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Thomas Mortagne > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne (thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com(mailto:thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com)) wrote: > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote: > > > > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru (enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote: > > > >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no > >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”. > > > > -1 because: > > > > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) > > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... > > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below) > > You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of > Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”. I was replying to Edy’s comment: "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”." I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things: - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support - only supporting the latest IE version > So > based on what's on > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. > > So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9. And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.

On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru (enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote: > +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no > logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”. -1 because: A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x) B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)

D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP More elaborate answer for point B): You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains... FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history): - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004 - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006 - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010 - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003. So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle). Thanks -Vincent > Thanks, > Eduard > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote: > > > My vote goes to: > > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo > > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo > > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri > > > > My rationale: > > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on > > modern browsers. > > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see > > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is > > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a > > third-party JS dependency. > > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will > > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even > > mention other companies) > > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser > > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on > > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should > > pick Colibri > > > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > > > wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > > wrote: > > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS > > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer > > > > > > > > s/upgrade/apply/ > > > > > > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on > > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle. > > > > > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9. > > > > > > >> > > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, vincent(a)massol.net < > > vincent(a)massol.net&gt; > > > wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ( > > thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com > > > (mailto:thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> IMO we should modify > > > >>>>> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy > > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's > > simple > > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft > > does > > > >>>>> not ?). > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of > > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for > > > older versions. > > > >>> > > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support" > > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course > > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here. > > > >>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE > > even > > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Thanks > > > >>>> -Vincent > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11 > > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not > > > support it!) > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne : > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> >> wrote: > > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not > > > IE9/10/11 > > > >>>>> >> only. > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course. > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > See > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet… > > > >>>>> >> . > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net > > > >>>>> >> wrote: > > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of > > > committers > > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet! > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated > > > >>>>> >> > > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy > > with > > > >>>>> >> recent market share. > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem > > > to show > > > >>>>> >> similar data: > > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > > > >>>>> >> >> - > > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% > > > of users > > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS > > this > > > includes: > > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11 > > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest > > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest > > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 > > > is less > > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded > > > to IE11)? > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes: > > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks > > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net ( > > > vincent(a)massol.net > > > >>>>> >> (mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote: > > > >>>>> >> >> > > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all, > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ( > > > andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com > > > >>>>> >> (mailto:andreea.popescu@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all, > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d > > > like to > > > >>>>> >> propose > > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at > > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions > > > are: > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still > > > widely used > > > >>>>> >> by > > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update > > to > > > IE10 and > > > >>>>> >> IE11. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop > > > Share by > > > >>>>> >> Version) > > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 > > > by 16.61% > > > >>>>> >> users. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older > > versions > > > (IE8 - > > > >>>>> >> 20.85% > > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still > > > significant. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support > > > only the > > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re > > > doing except > > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all > > > browsers and the > > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services > > > on top of > > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their > > > customers. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like > > > that we > > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of > > people, > > > because I > > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use > > > it without > > > >>>>> >> problems. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at > > > >>>>> >> > > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if > > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would > > > cover 70% > > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that > > > strangely > > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the > > > others… Not > > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have > > > problems > > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, > > > if that’s > > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers > > and > > > with > > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that > > we > > > try it > > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a > > burden > > > for us or > > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here: > > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that > > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each > > > browser or > > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for > > > the > > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach. > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks > > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent > > > >>>>> >> >>> > > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list > > > >>>>> >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > -- > > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> -- > > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list > > > >>>>> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> > devs mailing list > > > >>>>> > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> -- > > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> devs mailing list > > > >>>>> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> devs mailing list > > > >>>> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Thomas Mortagne > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Thomas Mortagne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Thomas Mortagne > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Thomas Mortagne > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11

See

IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net

> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers

> > I’ve updated

> > Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show

> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > > However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users

> - IE8/9/10/11 > - FF latest > - Chrome latest > - Safari latest > > It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less

> > So far we have the following votes: > - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net (vincent(a)massol.net

> >> Hi Andrea/all, >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com

>> >> > Hello all, >> > >> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to

>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >> >> FTR the thread in question is at

>> >> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >> > >> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used

>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and

>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by

>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%

>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -

>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >> > >> > Here’s my +1. >> >> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the

>> >> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we

>> >> Looking at the graph at

>> >> So there are 2 questions in here: >> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or

>> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs -- Thomas Mortagne

What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11

See

IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does. On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, vincent(a)massol.net

> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers

> > I’ve updated

> > Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show

> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers > - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web > - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php > > However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users

> - IE8/9/10/11 > - FF latest > - Chrome latest > - Safari latest > > It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less

> > So far we have the following votes: > - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11 > - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11 > - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10 > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, vincent(a)massol.net (vincent(a)massol.net

> >> Hi Andrea/all, >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (andreea.popescu(a)xwiki.com

>> >> > Hello all, >> > >> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to

>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11. >> >> FTR the thread in question is at

>> >> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are: >> > >> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used

>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and

>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by

>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%

>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -

>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant. >> > >> > Here’s my +1. >> >> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the

>> >> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we

>> >> Looking at the graph at

>> >> So there are 2 questions in here: >> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that >> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or

>> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs -- Thomas Mortagne

Here’s my +1