27 Dec
2006
27 Dec
'06
1:41 p.m.
Hi,
I'd like to propose creating a wikis/ module in wiki/wiki/trunk, as follows:
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/
|_ wikis
|_ default
|_ xwikiorg
|_ pom.xml
The idea is to save both the default wiki and the xwiki.org wikis in SVN.
Right now the default wiki is saved in
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/standalone/import/... which I don't think is the right
place. And the xwikiorg wiki is not saved at all. The rationale for having
it in SVN is 1/ to have it linked and tagged along with the sources, 2/ to
have it in the IDE when we refactor stuff (for example, it's easy to go a
search and replace on some tokens), 3/ to get SVN diffs on modifications
brought to xwiki.org so that all developers can see the changes and also to
link the JIRA documentation issues to modifications on the wiki pages.
In the "far" future, it would be cool to finish the SVN storage
implementation so that we could configure the xwikiorg wiki to use
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/xwikiorg as the storage location.
For now, we should simply be careful to use the online wikis to make changes
and from time to time (say once every week - I need to automate this) export
data from there and save them in SVN in the locations defined above.
Another detail: for xwikiorg we should not export the users as 1/ the
passwords are saved in clear in the export (that's a bug to fix) and 2/
There's no point in saving all those users registering on xwiki.org.
To summarize there are 2 proposals in one here:
A) Create the xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/default structure and move the default
wiki there
B) Add the xwikiorg wiki in there too.
Please provide your feedback on these 2 proposals.
Thanks
-Vincent
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27 Dec
27 Dec
2:19 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
Hi,
it's a good idea to save xwiki.org on the svn. But i'm not sure it's a
good idea to put it in the same trunk as xwiki core. I would prefer to
have it somwhere else.
I don't think it's a bug to have the password in clear in the export.
Sometimes we need it. An improvement would be to not have them in
clear in the database.
jeremi
On 12/27/06, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi,
I'd like to propose creating a wikis/ module in wiki/wiki/trunk, as follows:
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/
|_ wikis
|_ default
|_ xwikiorg
|_ pom.xml
The idea is to save both the default wiki and the xwiki.org wikis in SVN.
Right now the default wiki is saved in
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/standalone/import/... which I don't think is the right
place. And the xwikiorg wiki is not saved at all. The rationale for having
it in SVN is 1/ to have it linked and tagged along with the sources, 2/ to
have it in the IDE when we refactor stuff (for example, it's easy to go a
search and replace on some tokens), 3/ to get SVN diffs on modifications
brought to xwiki.org so that all developers can see the changes and also to
link the JIRA documentation issues to modifications on the wiki pages.
In the "far" future, it would be cool to finish the SVN storage
implementation so that we could configure the xwikiorg wiki to use
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/xwikiorg as the storage location.
For now, we should simply be careful to use the online wikis to make changes
and from time to time (say once every week - I need to automate this) export
data from there and save them in SVN in the locations defined above.
Another detail: for xwikiorg we should not export the users as 1/ the
passwords are saved in clear in the export (that's a bug to fix) and 2/
There's no point in saving all those users registering on xwiki.org.
To summarize there are 2 proposals in one here:
A) Create the xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/default structure and move the default
wiki there
B) Add the xwikiorg wiki in there too.
Please provide your feedback on these 2 proposals.
Thanks
-Vincent
___________________________________________________________________________
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2:32 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremi23(a)gmail.com [mailto:jeremi23@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
jeremi joslin
Sent: mercredi 27 décembre 2006 14:20
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
Hi,
it's a good idea to save xwiki.org on the svn. But i'm not sure it's a
good idea to put it in the same trunk as xwiki core. I would prefer to
have it somwhere else.
I would like to do it in 2 steps:
* step 1: create them in xwiki/xwiki/trunk.
* step 2: create some other place later on when we have our structure cleaned up more.
One rationale now is to have the same release cycle for the site (xwiki.org) as for the
code so I think it makes sense, for now at least, to have it in the same place as the
code.
I don't think it's a bug to have the password
in clear in the export.
Sometimes we need it. An improvement would be to not have them in
clear in the database.
Any password in clear is always a VERY serious bug IMO. They should be encrypted and only
the owner should be able to know. Admins should be able to reset passwords but they should
NEVER EVER see a password created by someone.
Thanks
-Vincent
On 12/27/06, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
___________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Mail r�invente le mail ! D�couvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface
r�volutionnaire.
http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
Hi,
I'd like to propose creating a wikis/ module in wiki/wiki/trunk, as
follows:
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/
|_ wikis
|_ default
|_ xwikiorg
|_ pom.xml
The idea is to save both the default wiki and the xwiki.org wikis in
SVN.
Right now the default wiki is saved in
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/standalone/import/... which I don't think is the
right place. And the xwikiorg wiki is not saved at all. The rationale
for having it in SVN is 1/ to have it linked and tagged along with
the
sources, 2/ to have it in the IDE when we
refactor stuff (for
example,
it's easy to go a search and replace on some
tokens), 3/ to get SVN
diffs on modifications brought to xwiki.org so that all developers
can
see the changes and also to link the JIRA
documentation issues to
modifications on the wiki pages.
In the "far" future, it would be cool to finish the SVN storage
implementation so that we could configure the xwikiorg wiki to use
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/xwikiorg as the storage location.
For now, we should simply be careful to use the online wikis to make
changes and from time to time (say once every week - I need to
automate this) export data from there and save them in SVN in the
locations
defined above.
Another detail: for xwikiorg we should not export the users as 1/ the
passwords are saved in clear in the export (that's a bug to fix) and
2/ There's no point in saving all those users registering on
xwiki.org.
To summarize there are 2 proposals in one here:
A) Create the xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/default structure and move the
default wiki there
B) Add the xwikiorg wiki in there too.
Please provide your feedback on these 2 proposals.
Thanks
-Vincent
______________________________________________________________________
_____ Yahoo! Mail réinvente le mail ! Découvrez
le nouveau Yahoo!
Mail
et son interface révolutionnaire.
http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
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dev(a)objectweb.org mailing
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29 Dec
29 Dec
3:17 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
+2
On 12/27/06, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
I would like to do it in 2 steps:
* step 1: create them in xwiki/xwiki/trunk.
* step 2: create some other place later on when we have our structure
cleaned up more.
One rationale now is to have the same release cycle for the site (
xwiki.org) as for the code so I think it makes sense, for now at least, to
have it in the same place as the code.
Any password in clear is always a VERY serious bug IMO. They should be
encrypted and only the owner should be able to know. Admins should be able
to reset passwords but they should NEVER EVER see a password created by
someone.
I'm working on this.
30 Dec
30 Dec
11:59 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
On 12/27/06, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
It makes sens to have it sync. But someone who just want the source
code of the core of xwiki does not want xwiki.org pages. We should try
to keep the core code as small as possible I think. And xwiki.org is
not all about the core, it's also about plugins, applications who have
there own lifecycle. I would prefer to have it somewhere else on the
repository, even if we tag it at the same time as the xwiki core.
In svn we have a unique revison number for all the repository, so it's
already sync.
What do you think?
--
jeremi
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremi23(a)gmail.com [mailto:jeremi23@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
jeremi joslin
Sent: mercredi 27 décembre 2006 14:20
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
Hi,
it's a good idea to save xwiki.org on the svn. But i'm not sure it's a
good idea to put it in the same trunk as xwiki core. I would prefer to
have it somwhere else.
I would like to do it in 2 steps:
* step 1: create them in xwiki/xwiki/trunk.
* step 2: create some other place later on when we have our structure cleaned up more.
One rationale now is to have the same release cycle for the site (xwiki.org) as for the
code so I think it makes sense, for now at least, to have it in the same place as the
code. 
7:17 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
On Saturday 30 December 2006 05:59, jeremi joslin wrote:
On 12/27/06, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
It makes sens to have it sync. But someone who just want the source
code of the core of xwiki does not want xwiki.org pages. We should try
to keep the core code as small as possible I think. And xwiki.org is
not all about the core, it's also about plugins, applications who have
there own lifecycle. I would prefer to have it somewhere else on the
repository, even if we tag it at the same time as the xwiki core.
In svn we have a unique revison number for all the repository, so it's
already sync.
What do you think?
Good question Jeremi.
How do I make and plug my XWiki initial pages to a customized instance of
XWiki?
Can this process be automated in some way that the user could point to her set
of initial pages?
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremi23(a)gmail.com [mailto:jeremi23@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
jeremi joslin
Sent: mercredi 27 décembre 2006 14:20
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
Hi,
it's a good idea to save xwiki.org on the svn. But i'm not sure it's a
good idea to put it in the same trunk as xwiki core. I would prefer to
have it somwhere else.
I would like to do it in 2 steps:
* step 1: create them in xwiki/xwiki/trunk.
* step 2: create some other place later on when we have our structure
cleaned up more.
One rationale now is to have the same release cycle for the site
(xwiki.org) as for the code so I think it makes sense, for now at least,
to have it in the same place as the code. From the point of view of the user, developing an
application on top of XWiki,
it would be nice to have some control over the initial
state of the database.
Is there some documentation on that topic?
As far as I understand an application can be packaged (exported from the dev
station) as a XAR file (spanning many spaces for example).
However, if the application needs a plugin or an additional radeox filter or
macro for example, then the code source needs to be modified and repackaged.
One requirement for any application I guess would be to make it easy to move
to an upgraded XWiki instance. XAR files are great help for that matter. But
when classes are added/modified from the source code, another solution is
needed (like a custom ant file based on the xwiki ant file).
But once an ant file is in place, it could be easy to customize the initial
state of the database as well?
8:50 p.m.
New subject: Patching XWiki from a user perspective (was RE: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN)
Hi Marc,
-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Lijour [mailto:marc@lijour.net]
Sent: samedi 30 décembre 2006 19:18
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
On Saturday 30 December 2006 05:59, jeremi joslin wrote:
Hmm... I'm not sure I understand the relationship between your answer and
this thread. I'm possibly missing something.
On 12/27/06, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
It makes sens to have it sync. But someone who just want the source
code of the core of xwiki does not want xwiki.org pages. We should
try
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremi23(a)gmail.com [mailto:jeremi23@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
jeremi joslin
Sent: mercredi 27 décembre 2006 14:20
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
Hi,
it's a good idea to save xwiki.org on the svn. But i'm not sure
it's a good idea to put it in the same trunk as xwiki core. I
would prefer to have it somwhere else.
I would like to do it in 2 steps:
* step 1: create them in xwiki/xwiki/trunk.
* step 2: create some other place later on when we have our
structure cleaned up more.
One rationale now is to have the same release cycle for the site
(xwiki.org) as for the code so I think it makes sense, for now at
least, to have it in the same place as the code. to keep the core code as small as possible I
think. And xwiki.org is
not all about the core, it's also about plugins, applications who
have
there own lifecycle. I would prefer to have it
somewhere else on the
repository, even if we tag it at the same time as the xwiki core.
In svn we have a unique revison number for all the repository, so
it's
already sync.
What do you think?
Good question Jeremi. How do I make and plug my XWiki initial pages to a
customized instance
of XWiki?
Can this process be automated in some way that the user could point to
her set of initial pages?
One option is to use the packager tool (in xwiki-tools/packager). It's not
documented yet. I have a jira issue for doing this. Another option which I'd
like to put in our build later on is to control the import from the admin
page from the build.
From the point of view of the user, developing an
application on top of
XWiki, it would be nice to have some control over the initial state of
the database.
Is there some documentation on that topic?
Not yet. Any help is welcome :-)
As far as I understand an application can be packaged
(exported from
the dev
station) as a XAR file (spanning many spaces for example).
However, if the application needs a plugin or an additional radeox
filter or macro for example, then the code source needs to be modified
and repackaged.
Yes. In the far future, we'll package everything in a single XAR file and
use some custom classloader to load stuff. This is XWiki 2.0. For now it
involves some manual steps.
One requirement for any application I guess would be
to make it easy to
move to an upgraded XWiki instance. XAR files are great help for that
matter. But when classes are added/modified from the source code,
another solution is needed (like a custom ant file based on the xwiki
ant file).
You can create a WAR file containing the modification and then overlay the
XWiki WAR created by the xwiki build. With Maven2 this is very simple as
shown in xwiki/xwiki/trunk/web/exo. You can do the same using any build
tool.
But once an ant file is in place, it could be easy to
customize the
initial state of the database as well?
Not sure what you mean by initial state of the database and what is the
need.
Thanks
-Vincent
___________________________________________________________________________
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8:38 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
Hi Jeremi,
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremi23(a)gmail.com [mailto:jeremi23@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
jeremi joslin
Sent: samedi 30 décembre 2006 12:00
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
On 12/27/06, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
cleaned up
more.
Ok fine. I wanted to do it in 2 steps but we can do it now after all. It's possibly
even better.
I'm thus changing my proposal for creating a top level xwiki-documentation module
(same level as xwiki, xwiki-clients, xwiki-sandbox, xwiki-applications, etc).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeremi23(a)gmail.com [mailto:jeremi23@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
> jeremi joslin
> Sent: mercredi 27 décembre 2006 14:20
> To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
> Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
>
> Hi,
> it's a good idea to save xwiki.org on the svn. But i'm not sure
it's
a good
idea to put it in the same trunk as xwiki core. I would
prefer to have it somwhere else.
I would like to do it in 2 steps:
* step 1: create them in xwiki/xwiki/trunk.
* step 2: create some other place later on when we have our structure
One rationale now is to have the same release cycle for the site
(xwiki.org) as
for the code so I think it makes sense, for now at
least, to have it in the same place as the code.
It makes sens to have it sync. But someone who just want the source
code of the core of xwiki does not want xwiki.org pages.
We should try
to keep the core code as small as possible I think.
And xwiki.org is
not all about the core, it's also about plugins, applications who have
there own lifecycle. I would prefer to have it somewhere else on the
repository, even if we tag it at the same time as the xwiki core.
In svn we have a unique revison number for all the repository, so it's
already sync.
What do you think?
Thanks
-Vincent
PS: I don't consider the fact that developers can checkout the core separately from
the documentation a good thing. I think it's actually bad as it doesn’t help
developers thinking about documentation. In any case if the proposal is accepted I'll
add xwiki-documentation in the svn:externals of trunks-dev.
___________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Mail r�invente le mail ! D�couvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface
r�volutionnaire.
http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
9:02 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
On 12/30/06, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Yes, but if the user can't use the documentation only with core. they
need the web interface which is not (or soon will not be) in the core.
And if we want to have the documentation of the core in the core, we
should I think convert the documentation to text pages, in a readable
format. Or for example if he can't make xwiki running, he will not be
able to read the documentation to know how to do, and how to import
the documentation:-)
I don't think it's a good idea to have the users having to load the
documentation in the wiki for reading it. I would prefer to have it in
pdf or text mode if you want an offline mode. we can at every release
export xwiki.org and pack it with the binaries and source packages.
WDYT?
jeremi
Hi Jeremi,
ok
-----Original Message-----
From: jeremi23(a)gmail.com [mailto:jeremi23@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
jeremi joslin
Sent: samedi 30 décembre 2006 12:00
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
On 12/27/06, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
cleaned up
more.
Ok fine. I wanted to do it in 2 steps but we can do it now after all. It's possibly
even better.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeremi23(a)gmail.com [mailto:jeremi23@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
> jeremi joslin
> Sent: mercredi 27 décembre 2006 14:20
> To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
> Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
>
> Hi,
> it's a good idea to save xwiki.org on the svn. But i'm not sure
it's
a good
idea to put it in the same trunk as xwiki core. I would
prefer to have it somwhere else.
I would like to do it in 2 steps:
* step 1: create them in xwiki/xwiki/trunk.
* step 2: create some other place later on when we have our structure
One rationale now is to have the same release cycle for the site
(xwiki.org) as
for the code so I think it makes sense, for now at
least, to have it in the same place as the code.
It makes sens to have it sync. But someone who just want the source
code of the core of xwiki does not want xwiki.org pages.
We should try
to keep the core code as small as possible I think.
And xwiki.org is
not all about the core, it's also about plugins, applications who have
there own lifecycle.
I'm thus changing my proposal for creating a top level xwiki-documentation module
(same level as xwiki, xwiki-clients, xwiki-sandbox, xwiki-applications, etc).
that's a good idea.
I would prefer to have it somewhere else on the
repository, even if we tag it at the same time as the xwiki core.
In svn we have a unique revison number for all the repository, so it's
already sync.
What do you think?
Thanks
-Vincent
PS: I don't consider the fact that developers can checkout the core separately from
the documentation a good thing. I think it's actually bad as it doesn't help
developers thinking about documentation. In any case if the proposal is accepted I'll
add xwiki-documentation in the svn:externals of trunks-dev. 
29 Dec
29 Dec
3:15 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
+1
As long as they stay in the same place as the xwiki code I'm fine. This
is IMO needed to ease the creation of the standalone wiki
Ludovic
Vincent Massol a écrit :
Hi,
I'd like to propose creating a wikis/ module in wiki/wiki/trunk, as follows:
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/
|_ wikis
|_ default
|_ xwikiorg
|_ pom.xml
The idea is to save both the default wiki and the xwiki.org wikis in SVN.
Right now the default wiki is saved in
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/standalone/import/... which I don't think is the right
place. And the xwikiorg wiki is not saved at all. The rationale for having
it in SVN is 1/ to have it linked and tagged along with the sources, 2/ to
have it in the IDE when we refactor stuff (for example, it's easy to go a
search and replace on some tokens), 3/ to get SVN diffs on modifications
brought to xwiki.org so that all developers can see the changes and also to
link the JIRA documentation issues to modifications on the wiki pages.
In the "far" future, it would be cool to finish the SVN storage
implementation so that we could configure the xwikiorg wiki to use
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/xwikiorg as the storage location.
For now, we should simply be careful to use the online wikis to make changes
and from time to time (say once every week - I need to automate this) export
data from there and save them in SVN in the locations defined above.
Another detail: for xwikiorg we should not export the users as 1/ the
passwords are saved in clear in the export (that's a bug to fix) and 2/
There's no point in saving all those users registering on xwiki.org.
To summarize there are 2 proposals in one here:
A) Create the xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/default structure and move the default
wiki there
B) Add the xwikiorg wiki in there too.
Please provide your feedback on these 2 proposals.
Thanks
-Vincent
___________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Mail réinvente le mail ! Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface
révolutionnaire.
http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
AIM: nvludo Yahoo: ludovic
3:30 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
-----Original Message-----
From: Ludovic Dubost [mailto:ludovic@xwiki.com]
Sent: vendredi 29 décembre 2006 15:15
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Proposal] Create wikis/ module in SVN
+1
As long as they stay in the same place as the xwiki code I'm fine. This
is IMO needed to ease the creation of the standalone wiki
Yes and this is exactly why I'm proposing this :-)
I'm pursuing what I proposed some time ago here on this list about
automating completely functional tests with maven2. This is a 5 steps
process:
* step 1: creation of the xar
* step 2: creation of the databases (empty)
* step 3: creation of the containers
* step 4: packaging of the whole lot
* step 5: automated selenium tests
I already have parts of steps 1, 2 and 3 on my machine.
Thanks
-Vincent
Vincent Massol a écrit :
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Hi,
I'd like to propose creating a wikis/ module in wiki/wiki/trunk, as
follows:
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/
|_ wikis
|_ default
|_ xwikiorg
|_ pom.xml
The idea is to save both the default wiki and the xwiki.org wikis in
SVN.
Right now the default wiki is saved in
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/standalone/import/... which I don't think is the
right place. And the xwikiorg wiki is not saved at all. The rationale
for having it in SVN is 1/ to have it linked and tagged along with
the
sources, 2/ to have it in the IDE when we
refactor stuff (for
example,
it's easy to go a search and replace on some
tokens), 3/ to get SVN
diffs on modifications brought to xwiki.org so that all developers
can
see the changes and also to link the JIRA
documentation issues to
modifications on the wiki pages.
In the "far" future, it would be cool to finish the SVN storage
implementation so that we could configure the xwikiorg wiki to use
xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/xwikiorg as the storage location.
For now, we should simply be careful to use the online wikis to make
changes and from time to time (say once every week - I need to
automate this) export data from there and save them in SVN in the
locations
defined above.
Another detail: for xwikiorg we should not export the users as 1/ the
passwords are saved in clear in the export (that's a bug to fix) and
2/ There's no point in saving all those users registering on
xwiki.org.
To summarize there are 2 proposals in one here:
A) Create the xwiki/xwiki/trunk/wikis/default structure and move the
default wiki there
B) Add the xwikiorg wiki in there too.
Please provide your feedback on these 2 proposals.
Thanks
-Vincent
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Ludovic Dubost
Blog: http://www.ludovic.org/blog/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
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AIM: nvludo Yahoo: ludovic
6527
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6530
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10 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
jeremi joslin -
Ludovic Dubost -
Marc Lijour -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Vincent Massol