On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 9:02 AM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote: "Privilege Right" sounds weird to me since a privilege is essentially a right (as indicated in your definition). 

* Root right (that's essentially what it is when you compare to OS world even if "root" is a bit technical but it's not the kind of right you give to anyone either) * Super Admin right

> My preference goes to "Privilege" or "Privileged". > > WDYT about > 1) Changing the name > 2) The new name to use if you agree with 1) > ? > > Thanks > -Vincent >

Hi Caleb, On 12 Jun 2015 at 10:28:23, Caleb James DeLisle (cjd@cjdns.fr(mailto:cjd@cjdns.fr)) wrote: While I understand what you’re saying (however this would be just a name change!!), based on your logic we would never change anything: - we would still call “web” the notion of spaces - we wouldn’t be able to drop the concept of spaces for nested documents - etc Now I agree that every change should be motivated, maybe I failed to explain the motivation properly. Reason 1: "programming right” doesn’t have much to do anymore with programming ;) (it never has but that’s another matter). It’s used for securing lots of other topics. Reason 2: Every day we have people who don’t understand what “programming right” is about. They think it’s the “script” right that we wish to add. Since you’re on IRC I’m sure you’re seeing this too. The latest occurrence was yesterday night but it happens daily.

So IMO the pain point is now, not later ;) Thanks -Vincent > On 06/12/2015 09:02 AM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote: > > Hi devs, > > > > With the intoduction of http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12171 (Add a script right to manage script macro execution permissions) in 7.2, we should also think about renaming what we call "Programming Right" (PR for short) since "Script" and "Programming" are close. At least to change that in the UI (and possibly even at API level by introducing new methods ands deprecating old ones). > > > > First step would be to find a new name. I can think of: > > * Privilege Right (nice thing is that PR is still valid ;)) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/privilege "a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most:". This would mean that people with the Privilege Right would be able to use Privileged APIs. > > * System Right > > * God Right > > > > My preference goes to "Privilege" or "Privileged". > > > > WDYT about > > 1) Changing the name > > 2) The new name to use if you agree with 1) > > ? > > > > Thanks > > -Vincent

I think I can say without justification that changing a term which is in the XWiki developer's lexicon is going to inflict pain, however I don't see the real pain in keeping it. Certainly other names could be better and I might have chosen "root" to keep with unix standards of "Global Administrator Right" to explain that it's global to a farm. But I don't think the self-explanitory nature of these names over "programming right" is adaquate reason to change. Standard gage railroad track is 4 feet 8 and a half inches wide, certainly not the *best* width and indeed somewhat of an insane number, but the people who built the first trains were wagon makers and that was the width of the wagon axles because if they were not that width, they would break when running in the rutted stone roads left by the Romans, indeed that width dates all the way back to the width of a Roman war chariot... or so the story goes. The point is that as much as existing standards might suck, "programming rights" is carved into every XWiki developer's mind just as "4 feet 8 and a half inches" is written in the ties, tunnels, switches and bridges all over the world and to propose a change to that you need a *really* good reason. On 06/12/2015 09:02 AM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote: script right to manage script macro execution permissions) in 7.2, we should also think about renaming what we call "Programming Right" (PR for short) since "Script" and "Programming" are close. At least to change that in the UI (and possibly even at API level by introducing new methods ands deprecating old ones). http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/privilege "a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most:". This would mean that people with the Privilege Right would be able to use Privileged APIs. -- Satire is the escape hatch from the cycle of sorrow, hatred and violence. #JeSuisCharlie _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On 12 Jun 2015 at 11:53:49, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (valicac@gmail.com(mailto:valicac@gmail.com)) wrote: 1) It’s not about executing stuff, it’s much wider (it’s a system/root/superadmin permissions to be able to do lots of things) 2) everything is about executing stuff :) 3) the script permission is also a right to execute scripts

Thanks -Vincent > Otherwise I like the Privileged name. > > Thanks, > Caty > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote: > > > I think I can say without justification that changing a term which is in > > the > > XWiki developer's lexicon is going to inflict pain, however I don't see the > > real pain in keeping it. Certainly other names could be better and I might > > have chosen "root" to keep with unix standards of "Global Administrator > > Right" > > to explain that it's global to a farm. > > > > But I don't think the self-explanitory nature of these names over > > "programming right" is adaquate reason to change. > > > > Standard gage railroad track is 4 feet 8 and a half inches wide, certainly > > not > > the *best* width and indeed somewhat of an insane number, but the people > > who > > built the first trains were wagon makers and that was the width of the > > wagon > > axles because if they were not that width, they would break when running > > in the > > rutted stone roads left by the Romans, indeed that width dates all the way > > back > > to the width of a Roman war chariot... or so the story goes. > > > > The point is that as much as existing standards might suck, "programming > > rights" > > is carved into every XWiki developer's mind just as "4 feet 8 and a half > > inches" > > is written in the ties, tunnels, switches and bridges all over the world > > and to > > propose a change to that you need a *really* good reason. > > > > > > > > On 06/12/2015 09:02 AM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote: > > > Hi devs, > > > > > > With the intoduction of http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12171 (Add a > > script right to manage script macro execution permissions) in 7.2, we > > should also think about renaming what we call "Programming Right" (PR for > > short) since "Script" and "Programming" are close. At least to change that > > in the UI (and possibly even at API level by introducing new methods ands > > deprecating old ones). > > > > > > First step would be to find a new name. I can think of: > > > * Privilege Right (nice thing is that PR is still valid ;)) > > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/privilege "a right, immunity, or > > benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most:". This > > would mean that people with the Privilege Right would be able to use > > Privileged APIs. > > > * System Right > > > * God Right > > > > > > My preference goes to "Privilege" or "Privileged". > > > > > > WDYT about > > > 1) Changing the name > > > 2) The new name to use if you agree with 1) > > > ? > > > > > > Thanks > > > -Vincent > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > -- > > Satire is the escape hatch from the cycle of sorrow, hatred and violence. > > #JeSuisCharlie > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

From the proposal done so far, I like the proposal from Cathy and Edy, they looks the most simple ones to understand from an end-user point of view. Superadmin role implies Admin role which implies Execute rights and more. Just for the sake of clarity, right implying other rights is not transitive, and its is a feature. There is also an important side effect when right is implied, the implied right receive the behavior (tie resolution, inheritance policy, etc...) of the right which imply it. So in true facts, there no roles, but rights and many more attributes: Superadmin right default to deny, will implies Admin, Execute, View, Edit, Delete,..., and will have a tie resolution allow and an inheritance policy not deniable. Admin right default to deny will implies Execute, View, Edit, Delete..., and will have a tie resolution allow and an inheritance policy not deniable. Execute right default to allow with no implies, I suppose will have a tie resolution deny, and an inheritance policy deniable.

I know you could see the above as hijacking your thread, but I do remember a discussion about it and you are about to implement it. So it is probably the right time to agree on those as well. On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 12:02 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: (mailto: valicac(a)gmail.com I we methods use -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs