20 Apr
2009
20 Apr
'09
10:31 a.m.
Hi,
I'm implementing semantic properties in XWiki Syntax 2.0
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320
I've done the wikimodel part and I'm now wondering how what XHTML we
should generate in the XHTML renderer (and thus what XHTML should the
wysiwyg handle).
Here's an example input:
%%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))
Right now one solution I've found is to serialize the property content
in xwiki syntax 2.0 and output it as a comment in the XHTML renderer:
<!--startproperty %%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))--><!--stopproperty-->
(note: we could have <!--property--> instead of start/stopproperty,
that's a detail)
Then the XHTML parser would use the xwiki syntax 2.0 parser on the
content of the comment to generate events.
Since it's not very trivial to serialize to xwiki syntax in the XHTML
renderer I'd like to know what you think or if you have a better idea.
I guess we could also do something like:
<div class="'xwiki-semantic property1">
<div class="xwiki-semantic property2>
<p>
<strong>value2</strong>
</p>
</div>
<div class="xwiki-semantic property3">
<p>
value3
</p>
</div>
</div>
Note: we would use span for inline semantic properties instead of divs.
And then have a CSS with display:none for ".xwiki-semantic"
The advantage of this latter solution are:
* Easier to implement for the XHTML renderer and XHTML parser
* Is in line with HCARD if we want to support it (and we probably do),
see
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320?focusedCommentId=39554&pag…
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
20 Apr
20 Apr
10:44 a.m.
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
I'm implementing semantic properties in XWiki Syntax 2.0
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320
I've done the wikimodel part and I'm now wondering how what XHTML we
should generate in the XHTML renderer (and thus what XHTML should the
wysiwyg handle).
Here's an example input:
%%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))
Right now one solution I've found is to serialize the property content
in xwiki syntax 2.0 and output it as a comment in the XHTML renderer:
<!--startproperty %%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))--><!--stopproperty-->
(note: we could have <!--property--> instead of start/stopproperty,
that's a detail)
Then the XHTML parser would use the xwiki syntax 2.0 parser on the
content of the comment to generate events.
Since it's not very trivial to serialize to xwiki syntax in the XHTML
renderer I'd like to know what you think or if you have a better idea.
I guess we could also do something like:
<div class="'xwiki-semantic property1">
<div class="xwiki-semantic property2>
<p>
<strong>value2</strong>
</p>
</div>
<div class="xwiki-semantic property3">
<p>
value3
</p>
</div>
</div>
Note: we would use span for inline semantic properties instead of divs.
And then have a CSS with display:none for ".xwiki-semantic"
The advantage of this latter solution are:
* Easier to implement for the XHTML renderer and XHTML parser
* Is in line with HCARD if we want to support it (and we probably do),
see
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320?focusedCommentId=39554&pag…
WDYT?
Very in favor of the hidden div version. It will make it much more
easier to write a "semantic properties viewer" in javascript than if
it's in HTML comments.
Why not use the "rel" attribute to hold the relation ?
<div class="'xwiki-semantic" rel="property1">
// ... etc
</div>
(I don't like having it has "the classname that is not
'xwiki-semantic'"). Or maybe double it with "rel" if the class is
needed
by hcard.
Jerome.
Thanks
-Vincent
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devs(a)xwiki.org
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11:28 a.m.
On Apr 20, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Jerome Velociter wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
rel is not a valid attribute for div or span (it's only valid for A
and LINK elements). It doesn't validate against XHTML validators.
Thanks
-Vincent
Hi,
I'm implementing semantic properties in XWiki Syntax 2.0
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320
I've done the wikimodel part and I'm now wondering how what XHTML we
should generate in the XHTML renderer (and thus what XHTML should the
wysiwyg handle).
Here's an example input:
%%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))
Right now one solution I've found is to serialize the property
content
in xwiki syntax 2.0 and output it as a comment in the XHTML renderer:
<!--startproperty %%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))--><!--stopproperty-->
(note: we could have <!--property--> instead of start/stopproperty,
that's a detail)
Then the XHTML parser would use the xwiki syntax 2.0 parser on the
content of the comment to generate events.
Since it's not very trivial to serialize to xwiki syntax in the XHTML
renderer I'd like to know what you think or if you have a better
idea.
I guess we could also do something like:
<div class="'xwiki-semantic property1">
<div class="xwiki-semantic property2>
<p>
<strong>value2</strong>
</p>
</div>
<div class="xwiki-semantic property3">
<p>
value3
</p>
</div>
</div>
Note: we would use span for inline semantic properties instead of
divs.
And then have a CSS with display:none for ".xwiki-semantic"
The advantage of this latter solution are:
* Easier to implement for the XHTML renderer and XHTML parser
* Is in line with HCARD if we want to support it (and we probably
do),
see
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320?focusedCommentId=39554&pag…
WDYT?
Very in favor of the hidden div version. It will make it much more
easier to write a "semantic properties viewer" in javascript than if
it's in HTML comments.
Why not use the "rel" attribute to hold the relation ?
<div class="'xwiki-semantic" rel="property1">
// ... etc
</div>
(I don't like having it has "the classname that is not
'xwiki-semantic'"). Or maybe double it with "rel" if the class is
needed
by hcard. 
11:45 a.m.
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
I'm implementing semantic properties in XWiki Syntax 2.0
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320
I've done the wikimodel part and I'm now wondering how what XHTML we
should generate in the XHTML renderer (and thus what XHTML should the
wysiwyg handle).
Here's an example input:
%%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))
Right now one solution I've found is to serialize the property content
in xwiki syntax 2.0 and output it as a comment in the XHTML renderer:
<!--startproperty %%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))--><!--stopproperty-->
(note: we could have <!--property--> instead of start/stopproperty,
that's a detail)
Then the XHTML parser would use the xwiki syntax 2.0 parser on the
content of the comment to generate events.
Since it's not very trivial to serialize to xwiki syntax in the XHTML
renderer I'd like to know what you think or if you have a better idea.
I guess we could also do something like:
<div class="'xwiki-semantic property1">
<div class="xwiki-semantic property2>
<p>
<strong>value2</strong>
</p>
</div>
<div class="xwiki-semantic property3">
<p>
value3
</p>
</div>
</div>
Note: we would use span for inline semantic properties instead of divs.
And then have a CSS with display:none for ".xwiki-semantic"
The advantage of this latter solution are:
* Easier to implement for the XHTML renderer and XHTML parser
* Is in line with HCARD if we want to support it (and we probably do),
see
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320?focusedCommentId=39554&pag…
WDYT?
It's hard to do proper semantics like this, since microformats imply
other elements than divs (for example links with rel, or abbr with title).
Another aspect I don't like is that there are so many HTML elements. Why
is there a p and a strong?
Anyway, +1 for HTML.
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
12:08 p.m.
I have to look closely documentation for the details but IMO Jerome's
argument about javascript manipulation is already enough to be +1 for
XHTML elements instead of XHTML comments.
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:45, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
Vincent Massol wrote:
--
Thomas Mortagne
Hi,
I'm implementing semantic properties in XWiki Syntax 2.0
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320
I've done the wikimodel part and I'm now wondering how what XHTML we
should generate in the XHTML renderer (and thus what XHTML should the
wysiwyg handle).
Here's an example input:
%%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))
Right now one solution I've found is to serialize the property content
in xwiki syntax 2.0 and output it as a comment in the XHTML renderer:
<!--startproperty %%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))--><!--stopproperty-->
(note: we could have <!--property--> instead of start/stopproperty,
that's a detail)
Then the XHTML parser would use the xwiki syntax 2.0 parser on the
content of the comment to generate events.
Since it's not very trivial to serialize to xwiki syntax in the XHTML
renderer I'd like to know what you think or if you have a better idea.
I guess we could also do something like:
<div class="'xwiki-semantic property1">
<div class="xwiki-semantic property2>
<p>
<strong>value2</strong>
</p>
</div>
<div class="xwiki-semantic property3">
<p>
value3
</p>
</div>
</div>
Note: we would use span for inline semantic properties instead of divs.
And then have a CSS with display:none for ".xwiki-semantic"
The advantage of this latter solution are:
* Easier to implement for the XHTML renderer and XHTML parser
* Is in line with HCARD if we want to support it (and we probably do),
see
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320?focusedCommentId=39554&pag…
WDYT?
It's hard to do proper semantics like this, since microformats imply
other elements than divs (for example links with rel, or abbr with title).
Another aspect I don't like is that there are so many HTML elements. Why
is there a p and a strong?
Anyway, +1 for HTML.
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
22 Apr
22 Apr
11:14 a.m.
Hi Vincent,
Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
I'm implementing semantic properties in XWiki Syntax 2.0
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320
I've done the wikimodel part and I'm now wondering how what XHTML we
should generate in the XHTML renderer (and thus what XHTML should the
wysiwyg handle).
Here's an example input:
%%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))
Questions:
* Who is the subject of the property? Is it the host document? Is it a
document fragment?
* Is the position of the property inside the host document important? If
it's not important then why should we merge the content of the document
with its semantic properties. If the position is important then the
subject it's not the document but the context (document fragment) in
which the semantic property appears.
* Are the semantic properties visible? Below you imply they are hidden,
but what about the in-line properties?
I am living in %liveIn(Paris).
IMO the best way to add meta data inside the content of an HTML document
is to use attributes (custom if necessary). Using anything else, like
comments or elements, raises the complexity of the WYSIWYG editing
because the meta data are part of the content flow and can be corrupted
or deleted unintentionally. To prevent this they need to be protected
using read-only *visible* areas which makes the on-the-fly editing hard
(the user has to double click on "Paris" to edit).
Right now one solution I've found is to serialize the property content
in xwiki syntax 2.0 and output it as a comment in the XHTML renderer:
<!--startproperty %%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))--><!--stopproperty-->
(note: we could have <!--property--> instead of start/stopproperty,
that's a detail)
Then the XHTML parser would use the xwiki syntax 2.0 parser on the
content of the comment to generate events.
Since it's not very trivial to serialize to xwiki syntax in the XHTML
renderer I'd like to know what you think or if you have a better idea.
I guess we could also do something like:
<div class="'xwiki-semantic property1">
<div class="xwiki-semantic property2>
<p>
<strong>value2</strong>
</p>
</div>
<div class="xwiki-semantic property3">
<p>
value3
</p>
</div>
</div>
Both ways would require, I think, the same amount of work to make the
semantic properties visible and read-only in WYSIWYG mode, using the
same technique used for macros.
Thanks,
Marius
Note: we would use span for inline semantic properties instead of divs.
And then have a CSS with display:none for ".xwiki-semantic"
The advantage of this latter solution are:
* Easier to implement for the XHTML renderer and XHTML parser
* Is in line with HCARD if we want to support it (and we probably do),
see
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320?focusedCommentId=39554&pag…
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
12:30 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] How to handle XHTML output for semantic properties? (change of direction)
Ok after thinking more about this with Thomas (and thanks to Marius'
email) here's our vision (Thomas and I).
There are 2 separate needs:
* semantic markup (a la microformat).
* document metadata
Semantic markup
==============
This was the need solved by semantic properties in wikimodel
(see http://code.google.com/p/wikimodel/wiki/AdvancedStructuralElements)
However we've realized that with the group feature we want to
introduce we already support semantic properties.
Here's an example:
I am (% class="person" %)(((Vincent Massol))
As a consequence there's no need to introduce a new syntax and I
propose to revert all the changes I've done locally on my machine and
not commit them and thus close http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320
as won't fix.
<implementation>
* introduce group events to replace beginDocument/endDocument when
it's not the initial doc
* introduce begin/endProperty events to replace current begin/
endFormat() which is used for parameters (we'll keep begin/endFormat
for wiki syntax elements such as **bold**, //italic//, etc.)
</implementation>
Document metadata
================
This is a separate discussion and we need to decide if we want to have
the ability to specify document metadata inside document content or not.
I'm not sure yet that we need that. If not then we'll need to continue
having a separate way to specify document metadata be it with some
special metadata object(s) or with a specific UI for setting metadata.
In any case we'll need to add some new metadata like:
* whether we want headers to be numbered or not for the full document
for ex
* whether we want left/right panels to be displayed
* whether we want attachments/comments/information tabs to be displayed
* etc.
So we need to find how we want to support generic document metadata.
Note that if we want only some headers to be numbered we can use:
--------- cut here -------------------
= not numbered header
(% xwiki:numberedHeaders="true" %)(((
== numbered header1
blah blah
==numbered header2
blah blah
)))
--------- cut here -------------------
Thanks
-Vincent
On Apr 20, 2009, at 10:31 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi,
I'm implementing semantic properties in XWiki Syntax 2.0
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320
I've done the wikimodel part and I'm now wondering how what XHTML we
should generate in the XHTML renderer (and thus what XHTML should
the wysiwyg handle).
Here's an example input:
%%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))
Right now one solution I've found is to serialize the property
content in xwiki syntax 2.0 and output it as a comment in the XHTML
renderer:
<!--startproperty %%property1 (((
%%property2 **value2**
%%property3 value3
)))--><!--stopproperty-->
(note: we could have <!--property--> instead of start/stopproperty,
that's a detail)
Then the XHTML parser would use the xwiki syntax 2.0 parser on the
content of the comment to generate events.
Since it's not very trivial to serialize to xwiki syntax in the
XHTML renderer I'd like to know what you think or if you have a
better idea. I guess we could also do something like:
<div class="'xwiki-semantic property1">
<div class="xwiki-semantic property2>
<p>
<strong>value2</strong>
</p>
</div>
<div class="xwiki-semantic property3">
<p>
value3
</p>
</div>
</div>
Note: we would use span for inline semantic properties instead of
divs.
And then have a CSS with display:none for ".xwiki-semantic"
The advantage of this latter solution are:
* Easier to implement for the XHTML renderer and XHTML parser
* Is in line with HCARD if we want to support it (and we probably
do), see
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3320?focusedCommentId=39554&pag…
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
5723
days inactive
5725
days old
6 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Jerome Velociter -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol