[xwiki-devs] [Brainstorming] Being able to install an extension or import a XAR in a space
20 Sep
2016
20 Sep
'16
1:41 p.m.
Hi devs,
Now that we support Nested Pages, I think it would be nice if we had the option to install
an Extension in a space (i.e. a page from a user POV).
Technically at the Component Manager level, we can already register a component at the
farm level (root), in the current wiki, in the current space or for the current user.
We already have the option to install an extension in a wiki and it would be nice to
extend that concept to a space.
We also already have the concept of space admin UI.
Of course the app should tell whether it supports being installed in several spaces or
not.
The use case is simply to be able to install several times a given application.
From a UI perspective, when you go the the space admin UI (called the Page Administration
for users), you’d have the option to list installed extensions and install new extensions
(basically what you currently have at the wiki level).
Now, the same should be doable also for importing XARs, i.e. also have an Import option in
the Page Administration UI.
WDYT?
How complex would it be to do that?
Do we already have a JIRA for this (couldn’t find one)?
Thanks
-Vincent
20 Sep
20 Sep
1:42 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Brainstorming] Being able to install an extension or import a XAR in a space
On 20 Sep 2016, at 13:41, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that we support Nested Pages, I think it would be nice if we had the option to
install an Extension in a space (i.e. a page from a user POV).
Technically at the Component Manager level, we can already register a component at the
farm level (root), in the current wiki, in the current space or for the current user.
We already have the option to install an extension in a wiki and it would be nice to
extend that concept to a space.
I forgot to mention that the idea would be to consider the pages in the app related to the
current location, i.e. if you’re in page A.B.C and the XAR has a page D.E, it would be
installed in A.B.C.D.E.
Thanks
-Vincent
We also already have the concept of space admin UI.
Of course the app should tell whether it supports being installed in several spaces or
not.
The use case is simply to be able to install several times a given application.
From a UI perspective, when you go the the space admin UI (called the Page Administration
for users), you’d have the option to list installed extensions and install new extensions
(basically what you currently have at the wiki level).
Now, the same should be doable also for importing XARs, i.e. also have an Import option
in the Page Administration UI.
WDYT?
How complex would it be to do that?
Do we already have a JIRA for this (couldn’t find one)?
Thanks
-Vincent
4:41 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Brainstorming] Being able to install an extension or import a XAR in a space
Note that it’s very very hard ATM to write an app that will work when installed in any
space. Some gotchas:
* xobject references in wiki pages are absolute
* class sheet bindings are absolute
Before we can do this we need to work on inventing the new syntax for relative references,
see
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/DeprecatingSpaceAndSpaceRef…
For example we need to be able to write in a class sheet binding xobject: .XXXSheet (or
..SomePage.XXXSheet).
And we need to save xobject references as relative in the DB.
Basically we need to have everything stored relative in the DB…
Thanks
-Vincent
On 20 Sep 2016, at 13:41, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that we support Nested Pages, I think it would be nice if we had the option to
install an Extension in a space (i.e. a page from a user POV).
Technically at the Component Manager level, we can already register a component at the
farm level (root), in the current wiki, in the current space or for the current user.
We already have the option to install an extension in a wiki and it would be nice to
extend that concept to a space.
We also already have the concept of space admin UI.
Of course the app should tell whether it supports being installed in several spaces or
not.
The use case is simply to be able to install several times a given application.
From a UI perspective, when you go the the space admin UI (called the Page Administration
for users), you’d have the option to list installed extensions and install new extensions
(basically what you currently have at the wiki level).
Now, the same should be doable also for importing XARs, i.e. also have an Import option
in the Page Administration UI.
WDYT?
How complex would it be to do that?
Do we already have a JIRA for this (couldn’t find one)?
Thanks
-Vincent
21 Sep
21 Sep
10:28 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Brainstorming] Being able to install an extension or import a XAR in a space
Hi Vincent,
Regarding the improvements to avoid absolute references, and increasing our ability to
relocate application, this is a big +1, since it would be already helpful during
refactoring of existing code, to avoid trivial breakage.
Now, about the idea of installing an extension multiple time in the same wiki, I am not
sure the benefits really outweighs the inconveniences, and a first step IMO would be to
evaluate that. In particular, what is the benefit of having the exact same application
code multiple times compared to having that code in a central place but using data in
several space, and being simply visible in those specified spaces. My first reaction is
that duplicating code looks like breaking good practices.
wdyt ?
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
On mar., sept. 20, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Note that it’s very very hard ATM to write an app that will work when installed in any
space. Some gotchas:
* xobject references in wiki pages are absolute
* class sheet bindings are absolute
Before we can do this we need to work on inventing the new syntax for relative references,
see
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/DeprecatingSpaceAndSpaceRef…
For example we need to be able to write in a class sheet binding xobject: .XXXSheet (or
..SomePage.XXXSheet).
And we need to save xobject references as relative in the DB.
Basically we need to have everything stored relative in the DB…
Thanks
-Vincent
On 20 Sep 2016, at 13:41, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
Now that we support Nested Pages, I think it would be nice if we had the option to
install an Extension in a space (i.e. a page from a user POV).
Technically at the Component Manager level, we can already register a component at the
farm level (root), in the current wiki, in the current space or for the current user.
We already have the option to install an extension in a wiki and it would be nice to
extend that concept to a space.
We also already have the concept of space admin UI.
Of course the app should tell whether it supports being installed in several spaces or
not.
The use case is simply to be able to install several times a given application.
From a UI perspective, when you go the the space admin UI (called the Page Administration
for users), you’d have the option to list installed extensions and install new extensions
(basically what you currently have at the wiki level).
Now, the same should be doable also for importing XARs, i.e. also have an Import option
in the Page Administration UI.
WDYT?
How complex would it be to do that?
Do we already have a JIRA for this (couldn’t find one)?
Thanks
-Vincent
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10:41 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Brainstorming] Being able to install an extension or import a XAR in a space
On 21 Sep 2016, at 10:28, Denis Gervalle
<dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
Regarding the improvements to avoid absolute references, and increasing our ability to
relocate application, this is a big +1, since it would be already helpful during
refactoring of existing code, to avoid trivial breakage.
Now, about the idea of installing an extension multiple time in the same wiki, I am not
sure the benefits really outweighs the inconveniences, and a first step IMO would be to
evaluate that. In particular, what is the benefit of having the exact same application
code multiple times compared to having that code in a central place but using data in
several space, and being simply visible in those specified spaces. My first reaction is
that duplicating code looks like breaking good practices.
wdyt ?
I see at least 3 advantages:
* The application doesn’t need extra development work to support being used from several
locations. See the existing apps. Almost none support multiple usage inside a given wiki.
If they could be installed in several places suddenly this makes it possible. Actually
this is similar to apps being installed in several wikis. It’s also code duplication.
* The users get the UI in different places (i.e. in situ) and they don’t need to navigate
to a central location to use the app.
* This allows to upgrade the apps used in several places independently from one another
So the question you ask can be asked at the wiki level too since it’s also code
duplication. The idea here is to be able to do the same but inside one wiki. Technically,
XWiki could have implemented what it did at the level of subwiki as spaces and I think
it’s a nice direction to increase what XWiki can do at the level of spaces (right now, see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/WikiVsNestedPages).
Note that I’m not saying that apps should be developed to support being used at multiple
locations. I’m saying that in the same way as we can install apps in several wikis, I see
no major reason to not be able to do at the level of spaces.
But that’s the point of this brainstorming: see if there’s value in this or not. I see
some value.
What about others?
Thanks
-Vincent
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
On mar., sept. 20, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Note that it’s very very hard ATM to write an app that will work when installed in any
space. Some gotchas:
* xobject references in wiki pages are absolute
* class sheet bindings are absolute
Before we can do this we need to work on inventing the new syntax for relative
references, see
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/DeprecatingSpaceAndSpaceRef…
For example we need to be able to write in a class sheet binding xobject: .XXXSheet (or
..SomePage.XXXSheet).
And we need to save xobject references as relative in the DB.
Basically we need to have everything stored relative in the DB…
Thanks
-Vincent
> On 20 Sep 2016, at 13:41, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
>
> Hi devs,
>
> Now that we support Nested Pages, I think it would be nice if we had the option to
install an Extension in a space (i.e. a page from a user POV).
>
> Technically at the Component Manager level, we can already register a component at
the farm level (root), in the current wiki, in the current space or for the current user.
>
> We already have the option to install an extension in a wiki and it would be nice to
extend that concept to a space.
>
> We also already have the concept of space admin UI.
>
> Of course the app should tell whether it supports being installed in several spaces
or not.
>
> The use case is simply to be able to install several times a given application.
>
> From a UI perspective, when you go the the space admin UI (called the Page
Administration for users), you’d have the option to list installed extensions and install
new extensions (basically what you currently have at the wiki level).
>
> Now, the same should be doable also for importing XARs, i.e. also have an Import
option in the Page Administration UI.
>
> WDYT?
>
> How complex would it be to do that?
>
> Do we already have a JIRA for this (couldn’t find one)?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
11:21 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Brainstorming] Being able to install an extension or import a XAR in a space
On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Well except that an application need to be very careful to keep
working when moved to another space which is hard right now in most
cases. It's actually much easier for an application to do what Denis
said (provide way to put data where you want and have actual code in a
central place).
--
Thomas Mortagne
On 21 Sep 2016, at 10:28, Denis Gervalle
<dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
Hi Vincent,
Regarding the improvements to avoid absolute references, and increasing our ability to
relocate application, this is a big +1, since it would be already helpful during
refactoring of existing code, to avoid trivial breakage.
Now, about the idea of installing an extension multiple time in the same wiki, I am not
sure the benefits really outweighs the inconveniences, and a first step IMO would be to
evaluate that. In particular, what is the benefit of having the exact same application
code multiple times compared to having that code in a central place but using data in
several space, and being simply visible in those specified spaces. My first reaction is
that duplicating code looks like breaking good practices.
wdyt ?
I see at least 3 advantages:
* The application doesn’t need extra development work to support being used from several
locations. See the existing apps. Almost none support multiple usage inside a given wiki.
If they could be installed in several places suddenly this makes it possible. Actually
this is similar to apps being installed in several wikis. It’s also code duplication.
* The users get the UI in different places (i.e. in
situ) and they don’t need to navigate to a central location to use the app.
* This allows to upgrade the apps used in several
places independently from one another
I tough about it but not sure it's a real use case (other than
testing). Something more interesting for me is the use case where some
team has a dedicated space and would like to use some application in
it without polluting the others and without the need to be admin of
the whole wiki.
So the question you ask can be asked at the wiki level too since it’s also code
duplication. The idea here is to be able to do the same but inside one wiki. Technically,
XWiki could have implemented what it did at the level of subwiki as spaces and I think
it’s a nice direction to increase what XWiki can do at the level of spaces (right now, see
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/WikiVsNestedPages).
Note that I’m not saying that apps should be developed to support being used at multiple
locations. I’m saying that in the same way as we can install apps in several wikis, I see
no major reason to not be able to do at the level of spaces.
But that’s the point of this brainstorming: see if there’s value in this or not. I see
some value.
What about others?
Thanks
-Vincent
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> On mar., sept. 20, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
> Note that it’s very very hard ATM to write an app that will work when installed in
any space. Some gotchas:
> * xobject references in wiki pages are absolute
> * class sheet bindings are absolute
>
> Before we can do this we need to work on inventing the new syntax for relative
references, see
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/DeprecatingSpaceAndSpaceRef…
>
> For example we need to be able to write in a class sheet binding xobject: .XXXSheet
(or ..SomePage.XXXSheet).
>
> And we need to save xobject references as relative in the DB.
>
> Basically we need to have everything stored relative in the DB…
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> On 20 Sep 2016, at 13:41, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi devs,
>>
>> Now that we support Nested Pages, I think it would be nice if we had the option
to install an Extension in a space (i.e. a page from a user POV).
>>
>> Technically at the Component Manager level, we can already register a component
at the farm level (root), in the current wiki, in the current space or for the current
user.
>>
>> We already have the option to install an extension in a wiki and it would be nice
to extend that concept to a space.
>>
>> We also already have the concept of space admin UI.
>>
>> Of course the app should tell whether it supports being installed in several
spaces or not.
>>
>> The use case is simply to be able to install several times a given application.
>>
>> From a UI perspective, when you go the the space admin UI (called the Page
Administration for users), you’d have the option to list installed extensions and install
new extensions (basically what you currently have at the wiki level).
>>
>> Now, the same should be doable also for importing XARs, i.e. also have an Import
option in the Page Administration UI.
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> How complex would it be to do that?
Extension framework support installing extensions in any namespace
right now but it does not yet properly support namespace inheritance
on several levels (all namespaes inherit root namespace). It's the
same thing for classloaders right now. In fact there is no concept of
inheritance other than with root in namespaces right now so this would
need to be added.
On platform side ComponentManager hacked its own thing but it does not
really know which namespace inherit what. It just follow the context.
For example if you ask for the ComponentManager associated with
namespace space:mywiki:MySpace the parent won't be a the
ComponentManager associated with "wiki:mywiki" but a dynamic
WikiComponentManager which look at the context everytime you call it.
About that it looks like we don't support nested spaces at all
(current space is tested then it fallback on current wiki).
On UI side there is probably a lot of work to present it properly.
And then you have to actually write an extensions that work on a
different spaces. This one is very hard right now if you manipulate
classes so an application would need to explicitly declare it supports
spaces namespaces since it's probably not the case for most of the
exciting XAR extensions.
>>
>> Do we already have a JIRA for this (couldn’t find one)?
This require several jiras.
Creating the one about ComponentManager not supported nested spaces.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
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5 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Denis Gervalle -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol