+1 for page This is only because my own maneer of understanding words : When I think to a document, I think more to an attached file. Thibaut DEVERAUX Tel : 06 75 51 20 80 thibaut.deveraux(a)gmail.com http://www.thib-d.com Skype : thibaut.deveraux @ Bricks, design et accompagnement projet t.deveraux(a)bricks-studio.com Découvrir Bricks : bricks-studio.com L'actualité du studio sur notre blog : bricks-it.com Se renseigner sur le design : design-keys.org 2011/1/7 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac(a)gmail.com> _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

What is "the metadata about the entity represented by the URL. / not a visual object" ??

I think this discussion should be replaced in the average user persona point of view.

- Can the average user understand what it is ? - Will understanding what it is change his maneer of using the interface ?

Should this be simplified in the user side ? Thibaut DEVERAUX Tel : 06 75 51 20 80 thibaut.deveraux(a)gmail.com http://www.thib-d.com Skype : thibaut.deveraux @ Bricks, design et accompagnement projet t.deveraux(a)bricks-studio.com Découvrir Bricks : bricks-studio.com L'actualité du studio sur notre blog : bricks-it.com Se renseigner sur le design : design-keys.org 2011/1/8 Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; > We've had this discussion in the past (unfortunately I cannot find the mail > thread again). > > AFAIR this was my POV: > * A page is the whole UI associated with a URL: content + skin + panels + > etc > * A document is the metadata about the entity represented by the URL. It's > a non visual object. > > For ex "Document Index" is thus valid if you consider not the visual thing > but that it's an index about the metadata. "Document Information" is also > very valid. > > Thanks > -Vincent > > On Jan 7, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> We are using mixed naming when referring to a document/page, not only on >> different pages, but also in the same context (Rename step for example). >> There is also an issue referring to this problem >> XWIKI-5401<http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-5401>and we need to >> find an answer in order to move forward consistency. >> >> So the question is which version we prefer: "Page" or "Document" ? >> >> I'm voting +1 for "Page". >> >> "Page" is more used IMO, especially in the "Space"/"Page" context. >> "Page" is more general than "Document" and better fitted for a platform > that >> encapsulates all kind of content (not just documents). >> >> Please cast your vote. >> Thanks, >> Caty

On 01/07/2011 04:53 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote: that Internally it will always be Document. Page is Visual. Document is Data. Sure, Page sounds simpler and more familiar to users, but using the wrong term models one's way of thinking. Q: What is bin/login/XWiki/XWikiLogin ? Semantically, it's an action. Internally, there's no document there. Visually, I'd say it's a page, but there's no Document to manipulate, there's no copy, rename, delete, edit. Q: What is bin/Search?text=gold ? Semantically, it's still an action. Internally, there is a document. Visually, it's again a page, but you can reach the document behind it. Q: What is bin/Search?text=love ? It's a different page, but it's the same document. A document can appear as many pages, but when you act on it (edit/copy/delete), you act on the document, not on the page. Q: What is bin/get/XWiki/LiveTableResults?some=params ? Semantically, it's a service. Internally, there's a document. Visually, it doesn't appear at all, since it's used behind the scenes, but you can "see" it as a plain document when using the /view/ action. Q: What is bin/Blog/BlogIntroduction ? Semantically, it's data stored inside a document. Internally, it's data stored in a document. Visually, you can see it either as a page or a document, and the term that is used throughout the wiki will move the balance one way or the other. Page and Document are not the same thing. It may seem that they are initially, but the more you understand the difference, the better you can understand how XWiki works, and you better understand the XWiki way of working. When you browse XWiki *web pages*, you navigate through XWiki documents. +1 for Document. -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On 01/10/2011 12:49 PM, Gregory GUENEAU wrote: situations where it is important for the user to name it document, and to name a space as "folder", or "application". No, this is going to do more harm than good. What do we write in the documentation? Do we make 2-3 sets of screenshots to show the possible display variants? (page, document, code, etc.) with specific icon in the UI ? Same with spaces (space, project, application, etc.) Valid idea for the future. that -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi, This vote has not be concluded. The majority of votants were in favor of the term 'Page', since it's easier for end users to understand.

We should take this conclusion in consideration when doing changes to the translations, in order to assure consistency.

Thanks, Caty On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Thibaut Camberlin < thibaut.camberlin(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: > Hello, > > I think that pages should be used for everything that is exposed to end > users. From an end user perspective, there is no difference between a page > and a document, so there is no point in using 2 different wordings. Page > makes more sense IMO. > > Document should be used for XWik advanced users. > > -- > Thibaut > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu > wrote: > > > On 01/10/2011 12:49 PM, Gregory GUENEAU wrote: > > > +1 also for page, for the same reasons raised by others > > > > > > BUT : could we have it as a variable in the admin ? We could imagine > > situations where it is important for the user to name it document, and to > > name a space as "folder", or "application". > > > > No, this is going to do more harm than good. What do we write in the > > documentation? Do we make 2-3 sets of screenshots to show the possible > > display variants? > > > > > More : as we have page type management, could we have generic page > types > > (page, document, code, etc.) with specific icon in the UI ? Same with > spaces > > (space, project, application, etc.) > > > > Valid idea for the future. > > > > > > > > > > > Le 7 janv. 2011 à 16:53, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) a écrit : > > > > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> We are using mixed naming when referring to a document/page, not only > on > > >> different pages, but also in the same context (Rename step for > example). > > >> There is also an issue referring to this problem > > >> XWIKI-5401and we need > to > > >> find an answer in order to move forward consistency. > > >> > > >> So the question is which version we prefer: "Page" or "Document" ? > > >> > > >> I'm voting +1 for "Page". > > >> > > >> "Page" is more used IMO, especially in the "Space"/"Page" context. > > >> "Page" is more general than "Document" and better fitted for a > platform > > that > > >> encapsulates all kind of content (not just documents). > > >> > > >> Please cast your vote. > > >> Thanks, > > >> Caty