Hi Caty and all, On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote: +1 I like it. One question: Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right that "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all users in the Admin group?

> Thanks, > Caty > > p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at [Proposal] > Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey

On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: gonna representation, process. "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all users in the Admin group? Other questions: * Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and Groups"?

* Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? For me it's not related to advanced or not advanced. It's just a folded view and a full view. A right contributed by some extension might be as important as one of the default rights.

Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote: The reason I mention this is because the first column says type and then you have "users" and "groups" and not just "users". It's for consistency and I think from a user POV they're both different things.

Yes this is exactly what I think is wrong. Whoever has the right to modify rights should see all rights. There shouldn't be a notion of advanced or not because additional rights are *not* advanced stuff. Actually to give an example, the programming right itself could be considered advanced while a new right such as "ability to post messages in a forum" would be a basic right. Thanks -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

*@roman* The presented use case adds user "evalica" at Space level, on top on standard (rights that come with a fresh installed XWiki) Wiki level groups. That's why those groups are presented. I should have stated this. was there an aim to allow displaying ALL of the rights that are applied to as Denis said "Registered Users" covers this case. And yes, it's a special case that could get protected from deletion. *@Denis * We need this especially when we hover the row and this information disappears. We should talk about this and see if we want to add a new color to the ColorTheme. I know there was also a talk about "Hightlight applied filters in livetable" http://markmail.org/message/5maylva3vjgre66c . We could add $theme.selectedColor additional to $theme.highlightColor. *@Vincent * The main disadvantage of this proposal is the icon contrast. I used icons from Silk and gray them out, but still there is not enough. We need to think on a way to improve this. So, in basic mode, icons have an inherited and overridden (locally set) state. You can see them at http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/RightsProposal… two row are inherited (allow/deny), the next rows are locally set (allow/deny) ]. Except "edit" and "delete", the other rights get lost in contrast. So, if you look closely, you will see that "evalica" has the "view" right locally allowed, while "XWikiAdminGroup" has the right inherited (from Wiki level, so it doesn't affect other rights at Space level; plus is an "implicit" rights - comes from allowed "admin"). You can observe this setting of rights, if you look also in the menu http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/RightsProposal… The problem with the phrase "Allowed only for evalica" is that maybe it should be "Allowed locally only for evalica". Also this could have scaling problems (if you allow it locally for multiple users). The advantage of the phrase is that if you have a problem with this right (the right is denied), you are informed who is the cause. Also the word "allowed" can be perceived as a call to action, letting the user know that he needs to allow the right in order to fix it. Like Denis suggested "Overwritten by local allowance" we could find another phrase, maybe less technical. Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and I'll change that. Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? the programming right itself could be considered advanced while a new right > such as "ability to post messages in a forum" would be a basic right The separation between basic and advanced rights was done trying to separate mandatory rights that cover the majority of XWiki functionality from rights that the user can rely on their default value. "programming" or any other application right IMO is not vital for a "basic" administrator. We can change "advanced" with "extended". WDYT?

Thanks everybody for your feedback - keep it coming :p Caty

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 09:33, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: Our concern is simplicity, like the simplification done on the edit menu, that became a simple button, preventing basic user to see objects, classes,... Here, the goal is the same, provide a simplified interface for the very basic rights that concern everyone and that could be understand by all. Additionnal rights will be added by additional component, so these additional rights will not be uniform across all wikis, and user with basic knowledge of wikis will not be aware of all those rights. These are not the basic rights you found on any wikis, and anyone understand immediately. So, these are obviously advanced in my POV. ie: "Ability to post a message in a forum" is for admin, not for a basic user editing a page. Please, also note that changing a user from basic to advanced is in the user profile a task that a user with edit write on himself could do. And that even basic user may see current advanced rights status in a tooltips when sets. So if a basic user understand its need of more advanced option, he could go for advanced. Also note that current whoever could modify rights is whoever has edit right. So many basic user could be in a situation that allows editing rights. But currently, only advanced user has the menu option to access this on a page. So, in practice, with the current skin, nobody will see the basic only interface. Finally, if you like Caty proposal of using Extended instead of Advanced, we can but that linking this to the advanced status of a user will be less clear. But if you dislike my ideas, I am open to drop it, this was just a proposal :)

Denis > Thanks > -Vincent > >> Right interface is complex, but access to it is also possible for simple >> editors not only for admins. Those only need to manage read/write access > to >> their page, and those will not understand the ins and outs of the > extended >> rights. This is mainly why we see this as 2 different view of the same >> stuff: a basic view, and an advance view. >> You have a similar behavior in the right management interface of Windows >> ACLs. >> Note that in basic view, you have a summary icon (currently a lock, but > this >> should be improved) that shows if there is some advanced rights locally > set. >> The tooltips for this icon list the rights locally set and their > allowance, >> but does not allow changing them (in the sample, the allowance is not > shown, >> this is probably a mistake) >> >> Denis >> >> >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Caty >>>>> >>>>> p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at [Proposal] >>>>> Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:46, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: Probably, since for me the separation is simple. Basic rights are those we have already, View, Comment, Edit, Delete, Admin, and no more (Programming is questionable).

Their meaning are obvious, these are the minimal requirement for viewing, commenting, editing and deleting documents on any secured wikis. So these does not require any experience to be used, especially at the page level, and these will be common on all XWiki instances. Since we are designing a better Rights UI, I hope that we will be able to show it to users with less technical knowledge. This is for me the goal behind having a basic interface for these rights and user, appart from showing a clear resume of common rights. Denis > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> >> Denis >> >> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> Right interface is complex, but access to it is also possible for > simple >>>> editors not only for admins. Those only need to manage read/write > access >>> to >>>> their page, and those will not understand the ins and outs of the >>> extended >>>> rights. This is mainly why we see this as 2 different view of the same >>>> stuff: a basic view, and an advance view. >>>> You have a similar behavior in the right management interface of > Windows >>>> ACLs. >>>> Note that in basic view, you have a summary icon (currently a lock, but >>> this >>>> should be improved) that shows if there is some advanced rights locally >>> set. >>>> The tooltips for this icon list the rights locally set and their >>> allowance, >>>> but does not allow changing them (in the sample, the allowance is not >>> shown, >>>> this is probably a mistake) >>>> >>>> Denis >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Caty >>>>>>> >>>>>>> p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at > [Proposal] >>>>>>> Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey