19 Sep
2011
19 Sep
'11
6:45 p.m.
Hi devs,
Thomas just told me that he's made a change for Extension Manager (apparently there
was a vote for it and I missed it - I can't find it so if anyone has the link please
point me to it) and that by default now the Extension Manager uses the temporary directory
to store installed extensions (Before it was using ~/.xwiki).
I thus want to throw my -1 to release 3.2 final with this (I'd also much prefer if
3.2M3 doesn't have it as much as possible). The reason is that the tmp/ directory can
get wiped anytime and the user can thus suddenly loose all its installed extensions. I
believe we need a permanent location for that.
We have 2 general options IMO:
1) Don't start xwiki if the work directory is not explicitly configured
2) Make the default EM work directory be the same as before (ie ~/.xwiki), when the work
dir config property is not defined
I also want to propose that for the standalone distribution of XE (the jetty/hsqldb
package) we use work/ as the work directory. We already create this directory and we
should use it (it's already used by our lucene indexing BTW).
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
19 Sep
19 Sep
6:55 p.m.
+1 for #2
Caleb
On 09/19/2011 12:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi devs,
Thomas just told me that he's made a change for Extension Manager (apparently there
was a vote for it and I missed it - I can't find it so if anyone has the link please
point me to it) and that by default now the Extension Manager uses the temporary directory
to store installed extensions (Before it was using ~/.xwiki).
I thus want to throw my -1 to release 3.2 final with this (I'd also much prefer if
3.2M3 doesn't have it as much as possible). The reason is that the tmp/ directory can
get wiped anytime and the user can thus suddenly loose all its installed extensions. I
believe we need a permanent location for that.
We have 2 general options IMO:
1) Don't start xwiki if the work directory is not explicitly configured
2) Make the default EM work directory be the same as before (ie ~/.xwiki), when the work
dir config property is not defined
I also want to propose that for the standalone distribution of XE (the jetty/hsqldb
package) we use work/ as the work directory. We already create this directory and we
should use it (it's already used by our lucene indexing BTW).
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
8:41 p.m.
On 09/19/2011 12:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi devs,
Thomas just told me that he's made a change for Extension Manager (apparently there
was a vote for it and I missed it - I can't find it so if anyone has the link please
point me to it) and that by default now the Extension Manager uses the temporary directory
to store installed extensions (Before it was using ~/.xwiki).
Not a proper vote, but I think this is the mail Thomas is mentioning:
http://markmail.org/message/mgjnjdw46rohdpbk
I thus want to throw my -1 to release 3.2 final with
this (I'd also much prefer if 3.2M3 doesn't have it as much as possible). The
reason is that the tmp/ directory can get wiped anytime and the user can thus suddenly
loose all its installed extensions. I believe we need a permanent location for that.
We have 2 general options IMO:
1) Don't start xwiki if the work directory is not explicitly configured
2) Make the default EM work directory be the same as before (ie ~/.xwiki), when the work
dir config property is not defined
Personally I think that 2 doesn't really work. On a serious server
installation there shouldn't be any ~ directory for the "user" running
the server. ~tomcat is /dev/null on my system.
Ideally, there should be a wizard at the start asking for this, in a
mandatory step. But we're pretty far from having a proper first-run
setup wizard.
If I have to chose between these two, +1 for 1)
I also want to propose that for the standalone
distribution of XE (the jetty/hsqldb package) we use work/ as the work directory. We
already create this directory and we should use it (it's already used by our lucene
indexing BTW).
+1 for this one.
WDYT?
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
20 Sep
20 Sep
10:42 a.m.
On Sep 19, 2011, at 8:41 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
On 09/19/2011 12:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hudson/Jenkins do it like this and it has worked for a lot of people. Remember that
we're talking about a default directory.
IMO 2) is better till we have the wizard yo mention. We need to make it easy and as smooth
as possible to use XE (remember that lots of people won't go further in their
evaluation of it if they cannot install it).
Personally I'm slightly in favor of 2) ATM till we have the wizard.
Thanks
-Vincent
Hi devs,
Thomas just told me that he's made a change for Extension Manager (apparently there
was a vote for it and I missed it - I can't find it so if anyone has the link please
point me to it) and that by default now the Extension Manager uses the temporary directory
to store installed extensions (Before it was using ~/.xwiki).
Not a proper vote, but I think this is the mail Thomas is mentioning:
http://markmail.org/message/mgjnjdw46rohdpbk
I thus want to throw my -1 to release 3.2 final
with this (I'd also much prefer if 3.2M3 doesn't have it as much as possible). The
reason is that the tmp/ directory can get wiped anytime and the user can thus suddenly
loose all its installed extensions. I believe we need a permanent location for that.
We have 2 general options IMO:
1) Don't start xwiki if the work directory is not explicitly configured
2) Make the default EM work directory be the same as before (ie ~/.xwiki), when the work
dir config property is not defined
Personally I think that 2 doesn't really work. On a serious server
installation there shouldn't be any ~ directory for the "user" running
the server. ~tomcat is /dev/null on my system. Ideally, there should be a wizard at the start asking
for this, in a
mandatory step. But we're pretty far from having a proper first-run
setup wizard.
If I have to chose between these two, +1 for 1)
I also want to propose that for the standalone
distribution of XE (the jetty/hsqldb package) we use work/ as the work directory. We
already create this directory and we should use it (it's already used by our lucene
indexing BTW).
+1 for this one.
WDYT?
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ 
19 Sep
19 Sep
8:41 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
Thomas just told me that he's made a change for Extension Manager (apparently there
was a vote for it and I missed it - I can't find it so if anyone has the link please
point me to it) and that by default now the Extension Manager uses the temporary directory
to store installed extensions (Before it was using ~/.xwiki).
I never said that, EM is using XWiki container standard work directly
like attachment files and Lucene for example. What the directory is is
up to the container component implementation and not EM. It just
happen that when you don't specify work directory the servlet
temporary directory is used.
The vote was about making standard work directory available to
components and I don't see why a vote is needed for a component to use
the standard XWiki work directory.
If there is anything to decide it's where is the standard XWiki work
directory since both Lucene and FS attachments have the exact same
issue but it has nothing do do with EM IMO.
I thus want to throw my -1 to release 3.2 final with this (I'd also much prefer if
3.2M3 doesn't have it as much as possible). The reason is that the tmp/ directory can
get wiped anytime and the user can thus suddenly loose all its installed extensions. I
believe we need a permanent location for that.
We have 2 general options IMO:
1) Don't start xwiki if the work directory is not explicitly configured
2) Make the default EM work directory be the same as before (ie ~/.xwiki), when the work
dir config property is not defined
I also want to propose that for the standalone distribution of XE (the jetty/hsqldb
package) we use work/ as the work directory. We already create this directory and we
should use it (it's already used by our lucene indexing BTW).
That's because it's explicitly set in xwiki.cfg so to have the same
behavior all that is needed is to set it the same way in
xwiki.properties.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Thomas Mortagne
20 Sep
20 Sep
10:40 a.m.
On Sep 19, 2011, at 8:41 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
This is very wrong. AFAIR we discussed about how to name that directory and we called it
"permanent storage directory" AFAIR. Using the servlet tmp dir as the permanent
storage directory is asking for trouble.
Hi devs,
Thomas just told me that he's made a change for Extension Manager (apparently there
was a vote for it and I missed it - I can't find it so if anyone has the link please
point me to it) and that by default now the Extension Manager uses the temporary directory
to store installed extensions (Before it was using ~/.xwiki).
I never said that, EM is using XWiki container standard work directly
like attachment files and Lucene for example. What the directory is is
up to the container component implementation and not EM. It just
happen that when you don't specify work directory the servlet
temporary directory is used. The vote was about making standard work directory
available to
components and I don't see why a vote is needed for a component to use
the standard XWiki work directory.
If there is anything to decide it's where is the standard XWiki work
directory since both Lucene and FS attachments have the exact same
issue
Yes although not quite, see below
but it has nothing do do with EM IMO.
IMO you're confusing things because you see them from a technical point of view. What
we've done is a regression from the point of view of the user. While previously his
extensions were stored in a safe persistent location, now when he downloads XE, it's
stored in a temporary location by default. The user doesn't care whether technically
what we've done is correct or not. It's bug from a user POV.
> I thus want to throw my -1 to release 3.2 final
with this (I'd also much prefer if 3.2M3 doesn't have it as much as possible). The
reason is that the tmp/ directory can get wiped anytime and the user can thus suddenly
loose all its installed extensions. I believe we need a permanent location for that.
>
> We have 2 general options IMO:
>
> 1) Don't start xwiki if the work directory is not explicitly configured
> 2) Make the default EM work directory be the same as before (ie ~/.xwiki), when the
work dir config property is not defined
>
> I also want to propose that for the standalone distribution of XE (the jetty/hsqldb
package) we use work/ as the work directory. We already create this directory and we
should use it (it's already used by our lucene indexing BTW).
Actually the lucene index files don' t really need a directory as stable as the
extension directory since lucene indexes can be removed at no harm. It won't change
any behavior of XE and the indexes will be recreated when XE starts.
So we could use the same location but ideally we'd need a better and more stable
directory for EM extensions. BTW we decided not to call the directory "work" in
the code so we should probably not call it "work" on the FS either.
I think we should rename it to data/ for example and use that directory for the lucene
files for now.
WDYT?
BTW I'd also like that we progressively move the xwiki config files to this directory
(xwiki.cfg, xwiki.properties) to make it real easy to save/find xwiki data and so that
installing a new version of the XE WAR doesn't override them.
That's because it's explicitly set in
xwiki.cfg so to have the same
behavior all that is needed is to set it the same way in
xwiki.properties.
Let's do it then.
Thanks
-Vincent
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
11:06 a.m.
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On Sep 19, 2011, at 8:41 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
It's not just about Lucene, you are forgetting FS attachments.
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
This is very wrong. AFAIR we discussed about how to name that directory and we called it
"permanent storage directory" AFAIR. Using the servlet tmp dir as the permanent
storage directory is asking for trouble.
Hi devs,
Thomas just told me that he's made a change for Extension Manager (apparently there
was a vote for it and I missed it - I can't find it so if anyone has the link please
point me to it) and that by default now the Extension Manager uses the temporary directory
to store installed extensions (Before it was using ~/.xwiki).
I never said that, EM is using XWiki container standard work directly
like attachment files and Lucene for example. What the directory is is
up to the container component implementation and not EM. It just
happen that when you don't specify work directory the servlet
temporary directory is used. The vote was about making standard work directory
available to
components and I don't see why a vote is needed for a component to use
the standard XWiki work directory.
If there is anything to decide it's where is the standard XWiki work
directory since both Lucene and FS attachments have the exact same
issue
Yes although not quite, see below
but it has nothing do do with EM IMO.
IMO you're confusing things because you see them from a technical point of view. What
we've done is a regression from the point of view of the user. While previously his
extensions were stored in a safe persistent location, now when he downloads XE, it's
stored in a temporary location by default. The user doesn't care whether technically
what we've done is correct or not. It's bug from a user POV.
> I thus want to throw my -1 to release 3.2
final with this (I'd also much prefer if 3.2M3 doesn't have it as much as
possible). The reason is that the tmp/ directory can get wiped anytime and the user can
thus suddenly loose all its installed extensions. I believe we need a permanent location
for that.
>
> We have 2 general options IMO:
>
> 1) Don't start xwiki if the work directory is not explicitly configured
> 2) Make the default EM work directory be the same as before (ie ~/.xwiki), when the
work dir config property is not defined
>
> I also want to propose that for the standalone distribution of XE (the jetty/hsqldb
package) we use work/ as the work directory. We already create this directory and we
should use it (it's already used by our lucene indexing BTW).
Actually the lucene index files don' t really need a directory as stable as the
extension directory since lucene indexes can be removed at no harm. It won't change
any behavior of XE and the indexes will be recreated when XE starts.
So we could use the same location but ideally we'd need a better and more stable
directory for EM extensions. BTW we decided not to call the directory "work" in
the code so we should probably not call it "work" on the FS either.
I think we should rename it to data/ for example and use that directory for the lucene
files for now.
WDYT?
BTW I'd also like that we progressively move the xwiki config files to this directory
(xwiki.cfg, xwiki.properties) to make it real easy to save/find xwiki data and so that
installing a new version of the XE WAR doesn't override them.
--
Thomas Mortagne
That's because it's explicitly set in
xwiki.cfg so to have the same
behavior all that is needed is to set it the same way in
xwiki.properties.
Let's do it then.
Thanks
-Vincent
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
11:12 a.m.
On Sep 20, 2011, at 11:06 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Yes FS attachments need a stable permanent storage location same as for EM extension data.
IMO the data/ directory I mentioned below (for the standalone distribution) is good for
that. WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
On Sep 19, 2011, at 8:41 PM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
It's not just about Lucene, you are forgetting FS attachments. On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
This is very wrong. AFAIR we discussed about how to name that directory and we called it
"permanent storage directory" AFAIR. Using the servlet tmp dir as the permanent
storage directory is asking for trouble.
Hi devs,
Thomas just told me that he's made a change for Extension Manager (apparently there
was a vote for it and I missed it - I can't find it so if anyone has the link please
point me to it) and that by default now the Extension Manager uses the temporary directory
to store installed extensions (Before it was using ~/.xwiki).
I never said that, EM is using XWiki container standard work directly
like attachment files and Lucene for example. What the directory is is
up to the container component implementation and not EM. It just
happen that when you don't specify work directory the servlet
temporary directory is used. The vote was about making standard work directory
available to
components and I don't see why a vote is needed for a component to use
the standard XWiki work directory.
If there is anything to decide it's where is the standard XWiki work
directory since both Lucene and FS attachments have the exact same
issue
Yes although not quite, see below
but it has nothing do do with EM IMO.
IMO you're confusing things because you see them from a technical point of view. What
we've done is a regression from the point of view of the user. While previously his
extensions were stored in a safe persistent location, now when he downloads XE, it's
stored in a temporary location by default. The user doesn't care whether technically
what we've done is correct or not. It's bug from a user POV.
> I thus want to throw my -1 to release 3.2
final with this (I'd also much prefer if 3.2M3 doesn't have it as much as
possible). The reason is that the tmp/ directory can get wiped anytime and the user can
thus suddenly loose all its installed extensions. I believe we need a permanent location
for that.
>
> We have 2 general options IMO:
>
> 1) Don't start xwiki if the work directory is not explicitly configured
> 2) Make the default EM work directory be the same as before (ie ~/.xwiki), when the
work dir config property is not defined
>
> I also want to propose that for the standalone distribution of XE (the jetty/hsqldb
package) we use work/ as the work directory. We already create this directory and we
should use it (it's already used by our lucene indexing BTW).
Actually the lucene index files don' t really need a directory as stable as the
extension directory since lucene indexes can be removed at no harm. It won't change
any behavior of XE and the indexes will be recreated when XE starts. > So we could use the same location but ideally
we'd need a better and more stable directory for EM extensions. BTW we decided not to
call the directory "work" in the code so we should probably not call it
"work" on the FS either.
>
> I think we should rename it to data/ for example and use that directory for the
lucene files for now.
>
> WDYT?
>
> BTW I'd also like that we progressively move the xwiki config files to this
directory (xwiki.cfg, xwiki.properties) to make it real easy to save/find xwiki data and
so that installing a new version of the XE WAR doesn't override them.
>
>> That's because it's explicitly set in xwiki.cfg so to have the same
>> behavior all that is needed is to set it the same way in
>> xwiki.properties.
>
> Let's do it then.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
4745
days inactive
4746
days old
7 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Caleb James DeLisle -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol