Why can't we introduce an "Update objects" field, but only when the page actually hold an XClass? It's not the main use-case. It's even quite rare a end-user rename such a page. That would not complicate the UI that much 99% of the times. A warning could also be displayed, saying that it might break some application (even when updating the XObjects, because the Velocity scripts are not magically updated as well).

Le mer. 30 janv. 2019 à 16:55, Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> a écrit :

On 31 Jan 2019, at 11:29, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: Hi Marius/all, Sounds good to me in general. Maybe "Update other pages” with a hint saying “Ensure that other pages using the renamed pages continue to work after the rename”. ? Would be nicer to find a single message that work for everyone but I agree it’s not easy if we wish to provide details. I feel a nicer option would be to NOT show “Update other pages” for simple users since that should always be checked. Only offer the ability to uncheck it for advanced users and this solves the hint issue too :)

On 8 Feb 2019, at 09:20, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 9:52 AM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: The only issue I see with this option is that by hiding the "Update Links" the simple users might not be aware of the side effects of the rename operation: the fact that other pages will have to be updated. Seeing that a page you want to rename is referenced in many places can make you think twice about the rename.

Now, the current hint for "Update Links" doesn't indicate all the side effects. For instance it indicates the number of back-links to the page you're trying to rename but it *doesn't include back-links to child pages* (when child pages are preserved). So what I said above it not really true ATM either.

Thanks, Marius > > WDYT? > > Thanks > -Vincent > > [snip]

On 8 Feb 2019, at 12:45, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:25 AM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: I can keep the message but then I'll probably need to display different messages for simple and advanced users. Moreover, ideally the message should be updated whenever the Preserve Children checkbox is clicked (e.g. to indicate that there are more pages to update if the child pages are preserved).

> > I was referring to hiding the option (the checkbox). This makes the UI > simpler to use for simple user, which is the direction we want to go and I > cannot find tons of reasons why simple users would want to not fix links… > Actually in the past all issues that were raised were the opposite, users > who didn’t check the box, and then we made it checked by default. > >> Now, the current hint for "Update Links" doesn't indicate all the side >> effects. For instance it indicates the number of back-links to the page >> you're trying to rename but it *doesn't include back-links to child > pages* >> (when child pages are preserved). So what I said above it not really true >> ATM either. > > Yes, it’s actually worse in a sense :) Right now it makes it seem as if > it’ll work perfectly well… > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> >> Thanks, >> Marius >> >> >>> >>> WDYT? >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>> [snip]

On 8 Feb 2019, at 14:00, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 1:51 PM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: Sure, but it's not just links. There's also xobjects of a class that is among those pages being renamed. There are two options: * show a single number (e.g. "There are *10 other pages* that are going to be updated because they are referencing the pages that are being renamed") . The issue here is de-duplication: if you simply sum up the backlinks + xobjects + etc. then you can have pages counted multiple times... Moreover, we would need to provide a link to a view showing these other pages (as we have for backlinks right now), and having a unified backlinks + xobjects + etc. is complex.

* show multiple numbers (i.e. "There are 4 pages that have links to the pages being renamed. There are 7 pages with xobjects defined by classes that are going to be renamed. etc.”)

> > For me this is the same info whether you’re simple or advanced, no? OTOH > the checkbox for advanced users could provide additional info as hint. > > Or we just don’t display this message at all for simple users. I wouldn’t > mind either. Makes it simpler in practice :) > > Thanks > -Vincent > > >> >> >>> >>> I was referring to hiding the option (the checkbox). This makes the UI >>> simpler to use for simple user, which is the direction we want to go > and I >>> cannot find tons of reasons why simple users would want to not fix > links… >>> Actually in the past all issues that were raised were the opposite, > users >>> who didn’t check the box, and then we made it checked by default. >>> >>>> Now, the current hint for "Update Links" doesn't indicate all the side >>>> effects. For instance it indicates the number of back-links to the page >>>> you're trying to rename but it *doesn't include back-links to child >>> pages* >>>> (when child pages are preserved). So what I said above it not really > true >>>> ATM either. >>> >>> Yes, it’s actually worse in a sense :) Right now it makes it seem as if >>> it’ll work perfectly well… >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Marius >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> WDYT? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>> [snip]

On 9 Feb 2019, at 13:11, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:12 PM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: I'm not sure that scales.. Renaming a large hierarchy of pages (I've heard users trying to rename / move the XWiki page...) can lead to thousands of back-links, xobjects, etc.

The issue here is de-duplication: if you simply sum up the backlinks + xobjects + etc. then you can have pages counted multiple times...

> We could simply mention the number of pages (i.e. references) that will be > updated as you suggested and provide a LT for that (should be easy). > > We could also decide to not show anything for simple users. > >> * show multiple numbers (i.e. "There are 4 pages that have links to the >> pages being renamed. There are 7 pages with xobjects defined by classes >> that are going to be renamed. etc.”) > > If you think that’s interesting info (and it’s probably the case), we > could display this one for advanced users, as additional info. > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> >> >>> >>> For me this is the same info whether you’re simple or advanced, no? OTOH >>> the checkbox for advanced users could provide additional info as hint. >>> >>> Or we just don’t display this message at all for simple users. I > wouldn’t >>> mind either. Makes it simpler in practice :) >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was referring to hiding the option (the checkbox). This makes the UI >>>>> simpler to use for simple user, which is the direction we want to go >>> and I >>>>> cannot find tons of reasons why simple users would want to not fix >>> links… >>>>> Actually in the past all issues that were raised were the opposite, >>> users >>>>> who didn’t check the box, and then we made it checked by default. >>>>> >>>>>> Now, the current hint for "Update Links" doesn't indicate all the > side >>>>>> effects. For instance it indicates the number of back-links to the > page >>>>>> you're trying to rename but it *doesn't include back-links to child >>>>> pages* >>>>>> (when child pages are preserved). So what I said above it not really >>> true >>>>>> ATM either. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, it’s actually worse in a sense :) Right now it makes it seem as > if >>>>> it’ll work perfectly well… >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Marius >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [snip]