[xwiki-devs] [Brainstorming] Should we support only one skin in our functional tests or not?
19 Aug
2014
19 Aug
'14
6:12 p.m.
Hi devs,
ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one skin (Colibri).
Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test framework to work
with Flamingo.
After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with Colibri.
The question is:
* Is this ok?
* Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this case we would need
to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object to have various implementations.
One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus. Another example is
that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3 buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Thanks
-Vincent
19 Aug
19 Aug
7:53 p.m.
On 08/19/2014 12:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
Hi devs,
ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one skin (Colibri).
Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test framework to work
with Flamingo.
After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with Colibri.
The question is:
* Is this ok?
* Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this case we would
need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object to have various
implementations.
One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus. Another example
is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3 buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Tests should work on different skins. At some point we did have some
support for skins, in the old xe-test-selenium module [1], but this
feature didn't survive the pageobjects revolution.
[1]
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-enterprise/tree/master/xwiki-enterprise-test…
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
8:02 p.m.
On 19 Aug 2014 at 19:53:54, Sergiu Dumitriu (sergiu@xwiki.org(mailto:sergiu@xwiki.org))
wrote:
On 08/19/2014 12:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
Yes (I coded it). The main reason it didn’t survive is because several skins didn’t
survive and in the end we’ve been supporting only 1 skin for years.
The question are:
1) whether we’re going to support several skins in the future or not? We’ve already said
we’re going drop Colibri when Flamingo is ready. Supporting several skins in the test
framework is a lot of effort.
2) if we want to support several skins in the test fwk when is the right time. ATM we’re
late for Flamingo as the default skin for 6.2 and doing this in 6.2 would mean postponing
6.2’s release by at least 1 to 2 weeks.
Thanks
-Vincent
Hi devs,
ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one skin (Colibri).
Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test framework to work
with Flamingo.
After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with Colibri.
The question is:
* Is this ok?
* Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this case we would
need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object to have various
implementations.
One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus. Another example
is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3 buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Tests should work on different skins. At some point we did have some
support for skins, in the old xe-test-selenium module [1], but this
feature didn't survive the pageobjects revolution. [1]
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-enterprise/tree/master/xwiki-enterprise-test…
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
20 Aug
20 Aug
10:50 a.m.
Hi,
What I don`t fully understand is why changing a skin should affect the UI
tests of an application?
Page objects should be specific to the application's UI elements that are
custom coded to reflect the state of and to perform operations on the UI
elements of the tested application only. These UI elements should generally
be located inside the document's rendered content and should be minimally
impacted by a skin change. For me, an application should be limited as much
as possible to the document's rendered content.
When we are not testing applications, but the UI of XWiki itself, then
indeed, perhaps we should have both skin-specific page-objects and tests.
So my question is: How much is the current skin change affecting our UI
tests and at which level? Are application UI tests affected as well?
Thanks,
Eduard
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:02 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
On 19 Aug 2014 at 19:53:54, Sergiu Dumitriu (sergiu(a)xwiki.org(mailto:
sergiu(a)xwiki.org)) wrote:
Yes (I coded it). The main reason it didn’t survive is because several
skins didn’t survive and in the end we’ve been supporting only 1 skin for
years.
The question are:
1) whether we’re going to support several skins in the future or not?
We’ve already said we’re going drop Colibri when Flamingo is ready.
Supporting several skins in the test framework is a lot of effort.
2) if we want to support several skins in the test fwk when is the right
time. ATM we’re late for Flamingo as the default skin for 6.2 and doing
this in 6.2 would mean postponing 6.2’s release by at least 1 to 2 weeks.
Thanks
-Vincent
On 08/19/2014 12:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports
one skin
(Colibri).
>
> Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our
test
framework to work with Flamingo.
>
> After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
Colibri.
>
> The question is:
> * Is this ok?
> * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In
this case
we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page
Object to have various implementations.
>
> One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level
menus.
Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3
buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Tests should work on different skins. At some point we did have some
support for skins, in the old xe-test-selenium module [1], but this
feature didn't survive the pageobjects revolution. [1]
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-enterprise/tree/master/xwiki-enterprise-test…
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
10:57 a.m.
On 20 Aug 2014 at 10:51:51, Eduard Moraru
(enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote:
Hi,
What I don`t fully understand is why changing a skin should affect the UI
tests of an application?
Page objects should be specific to the application's UI elements that are
custom coded to reflect the state of and to perform operations on the UI
elements of the tested application only. These UI elements should generally
be located inside the document's rendered content and should be minimally
impacted by a skin change. For me, an application should be limited as much
as possible to the document's rendered content.
When we are not testing applications, but the UI of XWiki itself, then
indeed, perhaps we should have both skin-specific page-objects and tests.
So my question is: How much is the current skin change affecting our UI
tests and at which level? Are application UI tests affected as well?
You can check by yourself from the commits done by GD yesterday and from the mail I sent
yesterday about the failing tests in platform.
I haven’t counted them.
Still there are lots of UI tests about the XWiki UI so the question remains.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Eduard
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:02 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
wrote:
On 19 Aug 2014 at 19:53:54, Sergiu Dumitriu (sergiu(a)xwiki.org(mailto:
sergiu(a)xwiki.org)) wrote:
Yes (I coded it). The main reason it didn’t survive is because several
skins didn’t survive and in the end we’ve been supporting only 1 skin for
years.
The question are:
1) whether we’re going to support several skins in the future or not?
We’ve already said we’re going drop Colibri when Flamingo is ready.
Supporting several skins in the test framework is a lot of effort.
2) if we want to support several skins in the test fwk when is the right
time. ATM we’re late for Flamingo as the default skin for 6.2 and doing
this in 6.2 would mean postponing 6.2’s release by at least 1 to 2 weeks.
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs On 08/19/2014 12:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports
one skin
(Colibri).
>
> Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our
test
framework to work with Flamingo.
>
> After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
Colibri.
>
> The question is:
> * Is this ok?
> * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In
this case
we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page
Object to have various implementations.
>
> One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level
menus.
Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3
buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Tests should work on different skins. At some point we did have some
support for skins, in the old xe-test-selenium module [1], but this
feature didn't survive the pageobjects revolution. [1]
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-enterprise/tree/master/xwiki-enterprise-test…
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
11:07 a.m.
Just to give one example, AllDocsTest from the Index app is failing. One reason is that it
logs the user out to verify that the LT doesn’t display the actions reserved for admins.
So it does a:
// Logs out to be guest
page.logout();
And this in turn will use a skin UI element (the logout button at the top right).
Now you’re right that for this precise example, we could modify the test so that instead
of clicking the logout button we log out the user by using TestUtils, i.e. not make it
part of what we test. It could be cleaner. Of course we would need to have some other
functional tests to prove that logout works fine when clicked but we do have that in this
case.
But as I mentioned we still have a lot of skin-related test code and this pushes my
question to this code.
Thanks
-Vincent
On 20 Aug 2014 at 10:57:19, vincent(a)massol.net
(vincent@massol.net(mailto:vincent@massol.net)) wrote:
On 20 Aug 2014 at 10:51:51, Eduard Moraru
(enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote:
Hi,
What I don`t fully understand is why changing a skin should affect the UI
tests of an application?
Page objects should be specific to the application's UI elements that are
custom coded to reflect the state of and to perform operations on the UI
elements of the tested application only. These UI elements should generally
be located inside the document's rendered content and should be minimally
impacted by a skin change. For me, an application should be limited as much
as possible to the document's rendered content.
When we are not testing applications, but the UI of XWiki itself, then
indeed, perhaps we should have both skin-specific page-objects and tests.
So my question is: How much is the current skin change affecting our UI
tests and at which level? Are application UI tests affected as well?
You can check by yourself from the commits done by GD yesterday and from the mail I sent
yesterday about the failing tests in platform.
I haven’t counted them.
Still there are lots of UI tests about the XWiki UI so the question remains.
Thanks
-Vincent
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:02 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 19 Aug 2014 at 19:53:54, Sergiu Dumitriu (sergiu(a)xwiki.org(mailto:
> > sergiu(a)xwiki.org)) wrote:
> >
> > > On 08/19/2014 12:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
> > > > Hi devs,
> > > >
> > > > ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports
> > one skin (Colibri).
> > > >
> > > > Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our
> > test framework to work with Flamingo.
> > > >
> > > > After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
> > Colibri.
> > > >
> > > > The question is:
> > > > * Is this ok?
> > > > * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In
> > this case we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page
> > Object to have various implementations.
> > > >
> > > > One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level
> > menus. Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3
> > buttons. Etc.
> > > >
> > > > Any opinion?
> > >
> > > Tests should work on different skins. At some point we did have some
> > > support for skins, in the old xe-test-selenium module [1], but this
> > > feature didn't survive the pageobjects revolution.
> >
> > Yes (I coded it). The main reason it didn’t survive is because several
> > skins didn’t survive and in the end we’ve been supporting only 1 skin for
> > years.
> >
> > The question are:
> > 1) whether we’re going to support several skins in the future or not?
> > We’ve already said we’re going drop Colibri when Flamingo is ready.
> > Supporting several skins in the test framework is a lot of effort.
> > 2) if we want to support several skins in the test fwk when is the right
> > time. ATM we’re late for Flamingo as the default skin for 6.2 and doing
> > this in 6.2 would mean postponing 6.2’s release by at least 1 to 2 weeks.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-enterprise/tree/master/xwiki-enterprise-test…
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sergiu Dumitriu
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs 
3:55 p.m.
I'm fine with running the functional tests only for the default skin.
Note that although we support many browsers we run the functional
tests only for Firefox. So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one skin (Colibri).
Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test framework to work
with Flamingo.
After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with Colibri.
The question is:
* Is this ok?
* Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this case we would
need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object to have various
implementations.
One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus. Another example
is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3 buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
4:01 p.m.
On 20 Aug 2014 at 15:55:59, Marius Dumitru Florea
(mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com)) wrote:
I'm fine with running the functional tests only
for the default skin.
Note that although we support many browsers we run the functional
tests only for Firefox.
Which is bad and not something we want ;)
Thanks
-Vincent
So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one skin
(Colibri).
>
> Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test framework to
work with Flamingo.
>
> After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with Colibri.
>
> The question is:
> * Is this ok?
> * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this case we
would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object to have various
implementations.
>
> One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus. Another
example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3 buttons. Etc.
>
> Any opinion?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
21 Aug
21 Aug
11:57 a.m.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:01 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
On 20 Aug 2014 at 15:55:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
wrote:
We want to have test on all browser with as many skin as possible,
including test of all combination of migrated version, and ... well, what
we want is not really compatible with true reality :)
So, taking into account our team, I do not think we can afford the support
of more than one skin. In practice, I doubt those that see our new skin
will want to stick with colibri for long, and those that will, will also
stick with the old xwiki version they have. The support for both colibri
and flamingo in parallel is also short term, so unless I over estimate the
workload, I am +1 to only support one skin in functional tests, and to also
put some reserves on the usage of colibri in upcoming versions.
Thanks,
I'm fine with running the functional tests
only for the default skin.
Note that although we support many browsers we run the functional
tests only for Firefox.
Which is bad and not something we want ;)
Thanks
-Vincent
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports
one skin
(Colibri).
>
> Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our
test
framework to work with Flamingo.
>
> After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
Colibri.
>
> The question is:
> * Is this ok?
> * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In
this case
we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page
Object to have various implementations.
>
> One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level
menus.
Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3
buttons. Etc.
>
> Any opinion?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
2:22 p.m.
Hi,
+1 for only testing on Flamingo.
Thanks,
Manuel
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:01 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
On 20 Aug 2014 at 15:55:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
wrote:
We want to have test on all browser with as many skin as possible,
including test of all combination of migrated version, and ... well, what
we want is not really compatible with true reality :)
So, taking into account our team, I do not think we can afford the support
of more than one skin. In practice, I doubt those that see our new skin
will want to stick with colibri for long, and those that will, will also
stick with the old xwiki version they have. The support for both colibri
and flamingo in parallel is also short term, so unless I over estimate the
workload, I am +1 to only support one skin in functional tests, and to also
put some reserves on the usage of colibri in upcoming versions.
Thanks,
I'm fine with running the functional tests
only for the default skin.
Note that although we support many browsers we run the functional
tests only for Firefox.
Which is bad and not something we want ;)
Thanks
-Vincent
3
So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports
one skin
(Colibri).
>
> Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our
test
framework to work with Flamingo.
>
> After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
Colibri.
>
> The question is:
> * Is this ok?
> * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In
this case
we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page
Object to have various implementations.
>
> One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level
menus.
Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s buttons. Etc.
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> Any opinion?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
2:40 p.m.
Just for the record: anyone saying +1 for only testing on Flaming must realize that they
are basically saying that we will NOT support more than 1 skin (Because manual testing
doesn’t scale).
Thanks
-Vincent
On 21 Aug 2014 at 14:22:38, Manuel Smeria (manuel@xwiki.com(mailto:manuel@xwiki.com))
wrote:
Hi,
+1 for only testing on Flamingo.
Thanks,
Manuel
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:01 PM,
vincent(a)massol.net
wrote:
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 20 Aug 2014 at 15:55:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
wrote:
We want to have test on all browser with as many skin as possible,
including test of all combination of migrated version, and ... well, what
we want is not really compatible with true reality :)
So, taking into account our team, I do not think we can afford the support
of more than one skin. In practice, I doubt those that see our new skin
will want to stick with colibri for long, and those that will, will also
stick with the old xwiki version they have. The support for both colibri
and flamingo in parallel is also short term, so unless I over estimate the
workload, I am +1 to only support one skin in functional tests, and to also
put some reserves on the usage of colibri in upcoming versions.
Thanks,
I'm fine with running the functional tests
only for the default skin.
Note that although we support many browsers we run the functional
tests only for Firefox.
Which is bad and not something we want ;)
Thanks
-Vincent
3
So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports
one skin
(Colibri).
>
> Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our
test
framework to work with Flamingo.
>
> After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
Colibri.
>
> The question is:
> * Is this ok?
> * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In
this case
we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page
Object to have various implementations.
>
> One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level
menus.
Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s buttons. Etc.
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> Any opinion?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
4:52 p.m.
On 21 Aug 2014 at 11:58:01, Denis Gervalle (dgl@softec.lu(mailto:dgl@softec.lu)) wrote:
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:01 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
wrote:
You’re mixing a bit everything in the same bag here :) There are 2 aspects:
- It’s specifically because we don’t have that much manpower that we must have our CI
automatically test on various browsers/databases/OSes. This works well because the tests
don’t need to be modified (in theory at least but mostly true) to be executed on various
browsers/databases/OSes.
- for the various skins it’s different because you need to write several test frameworks
(one per skin) so it’s indeed more work.
On 20 Aug 2014 at 15:55:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
wrote:
We want to have test on all browser with as many skin as possible,
including test of all combination of migrated version, and ... well, what
we want is not really compatible with true reality :) I'm fine with running the functional tests
only for the default skin.
Note that although we support many browsers we run the functional
tests only for Firefox.
Which is bad and not something we want ;)
So, taking into account our team, I do not think we
can afford the support
of more than one skin. In practice, I doubt those that see our new skin
will want to stick with colibri for long, and those that will, will also
stick with the old xwiki version they have. The support for both colibri
and flamingo in parallel is also short term, so unless I over estimate the
workload, I am +1 to only support one skin in functional tests, and to also
put some reserves on the usage of colibri in upcoming versions.
It depends if we’re able to fulfil a large majority of use cases with only 1 skin or not.
The fact that we’ve been able to support only one skin shows how complex writing an XWiki
skin is. If you check on extensions.xwiki.org you’ll see we have very few skins,
especially compared to other tools like wordpress, drupal, etc. We’ve been saying this for
years but we haven’t made progress. Quite the opposite, over the years, we’ve made writing
skins more complex (for example right now if you want to write a new skin you need to make
sure to implement all Extension Points in your skin if you want your skin to behave
properly with extensions!).
Now one solution could be to have only 1 (or a few) base skins and improve Skin Themes so
that users can do more and more in a Theme, thus allowing just to modify Themes and not a
full skin. We started with Color Themes, added the ability to change the logo, and we are
now moving to Themes with the ability to also change fonts. This is a step in the right
direction I believe. In some future, we could maybe also support more Theme features. At
some point we might need to fold default Panels layout (1 column, 2 columns, 3 columns,
etc) and Panels selection into Themes too. Etc.
If we push this to a level where having 1 skin and using various Themes allow XWiki users
to implement the UI they need for their project then we won’t need to support more than 1
skin.
But I fear this is just pushing the testing problem to Themes (but maybe to a lesser
degree, depending on the freedom we give to Themes) ;) And if we wish to support several
Themes we’ll need to test them…
Anyway, for 6.2 I agree we don’t have the time to make our UI test framework
multiskin-enabled.
However, I believe we’ll need to refactor our test framework to allow supporting testing
several UI. That will be useful when we need to do that but also for our users writing new
skins and needing tests for them. I don’t think it’s that complicated to do.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Thanks
-Vincent
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports
one skin
(Colibri).
>
> Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our
test
framework to work with Flamingo.
>
> After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
Colibri.
>
> The question is:
> * Is this ok?
> * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In
this case
we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page
Object to have various implementations.
>
> One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level
menus.
Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3
buttons. Etc.
>
> Any opinion?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
5:11 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:52 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
I agree that if flavor came with different skins, we will need to support
testing those. This does not seems to be the plan at the moment. We have
taken the direction of supporting mobile using the same skin than desktop,
so the exact opposite of having multiple skins for different purposes.
On 21 Aug 2014 at 11:58:01, Denis Gervalle (dgl(a)softec.lu(mailto:
dgl(a)softec.lu)) wrote:
We could not say that test does not require some maintenance effort, and
supporting multiple skin will increase it.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:01 PM,
vincent(a)massol.net
wrote:
You’re mixing a bit everything in the same bag here :) There are 2 aspects:
- It’s specifically because we don’t have that much manpower that we must
have our CI automatically test on various browsers/databases/OSes. This
works well because the tests don’t need to be modified (in theory at least
but mostly true) to be executed on various browsers/databases/OSes.
On 20 Aug 2014 at 15:55:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com(mailto:mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com))
wrote:
We want to have test on all browser with as many skin as possible,
including test of all combination of migrated version, and ... well, what
we want is not really compatible with true reality :) I'm fine with running the functional tests
only for the default skin.
Note that although we support many browsers we run the functional
tests only for Firefox.
Which is bad and not something we want ;)
- for the various skins it’s different because you
need to write several
test frameworks (one per skin) so it’s indeed more work.
I have not the feeling we have the time for that, there are many other
aspect that also require our attention.
So, taking into account our team, I do not think
we can afford the
support
of more than one skin. In practice, I doubt those
that see our new skin
will want to stick with colibri for long, and those that will, will also
stick with the old xwiki version they have. The support for both colibri
and flamingo in parallel is also short term, so unless I over estimate
the
workload, I am +1 to only support one skin in
functional tests, and to
also
put some reserves on the usage of colibri in
upcoming versions.
It depends if we’re able to fulfil a large majority of use cases with only
1 skin or not.
The fact that we’ve been able to support only one skin
shows how complex
writing an XWiki skin is. If you check on extensions.xwiki.org you’ll see
we have very few skins, especially compared to other tools like wordpress,
drupal, etc. We’ve been saying this for years but we haven’t made progress.
Quite the opposite, over the years, we’ve made writing skins more complex
(for example right now if you want to write a new skin you need to make
sure to implement all Extension Points in your skin if you want your skin
to behave properly with extensions!).
Comparing XWiki skins ans wordpress, drupal, etc... themes, is really
unfair. In fact, those products are simply not fully "skinable", they have
a single static skin with many options, and they have themes, which is not
exactly the same. The Skin is a very powerful feature of XWiki, since it
allows a complete flexibility of the XWiki UI when need arise.
Now one solution could be to have only 1 (or a few)
base skins and improve
Skin Themes so that users can do more and more in a Theme, thus allowing
just to modify Themes and not a full skin. We started with Color Themes,
added the ability to change the logo, and we are now moving to Themes with
the ability to also change fonts. This is a step in the right direction I
believe. In some future, we could maybe also support more Theme features.
At some point we might need to fold default Panels layout (1 column, 2
columns, 3 columns, etc) and Panels selection into Themes too. Etc.
I completely agree that we should improve that aspect, and Flamingo will
really help. It should be able to take bootstrap themes and apply them to
XWiki. Changing and supporting multiple theme is only a matter of CSS, and
should not affect the functionalities, so testing different themes is not
really required IMO.
If we push this to a level where having 1 skin and
using various Themes
allow XWiki users to implement the UI they need for their project then we
won’t need to support more than 1 skin.
Users can always customize the skin, this does not change anything for us.
But I fear this is just pushing the testing problem to
Themes (but maybe
to a lesser degree, depending on the freedom we give to Themes) ;) And if
we wish to support several Themes we’ll need to test them…
We should not put in Themes what is a matter of Skin. The skin could have
many options, like other product does. Supporting multiple skin is actually
out of scope for the small theme we are.
Anyway, for 6.2 I agree we don’t have the time to make
our UI test
framework multiskin-enabled.
However, I believe we’ll need to refactor our test framework to allow
supporting testing several UI. That will be useful when we need to do that
but also for our users writing new skins and needing tests for them. I
don’t think it’s that complicated to do.
I have nothing against, I just do not see it as a priority.
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
Thanks,
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
> > the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
> > functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Marius
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net wrote:
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports
> one skin (Colibri).
> > >
> > > Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our
> test framework to work with Flamingo.
> > >
> > > After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
> Colibri.
> > >
> > > The question is:
> > > * Is this ok?
> > > * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In
> this case we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each
Page
> Object to have various implementations.
> > >
> > > One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level
> menus. Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu;
it’s 3
buttons.
Etc.
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >
> Any opinion?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
10:33 a.m.
Hi,
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea
<mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
I'm fine with running the functional tests only
for the default skin.
+1
Note that although we support many browsers we run the
functional
tests only for Firefox. So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
+1 for this as well. Andreea has been doing manual tests on Colibri in
parallel with Flamingo and will probably continue to do so for a few
more versions.
Thanks,
Silvia
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one skin (Colibri).
Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test framework to work
with Flamingo.
After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with Colibri.
The question is:
* Is this ok?
* Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this case we would
need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object to have various
implementations.
One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus. Another example
is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3 buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs 
10:43 a.m.
I'm fine with running the functional tests
only for the default skin.
+1
Note that although we support many browsers we
run the functional
tests only for Firefox. So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
+1 for this as well. Andreea has been doing manual tests on Colibri in
parallel with Flamingo and will probably continue to do so for a few
more versions.
Hi,
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea
<mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
I'm fine with running the functional tests
only for the default skin.
+1
Note that although we support many browsers we
run the functional
tests only for Firefox. So I think it's ok if we continue supporting
the Colibri skin for a few versions even if we stop running the
functional tests on it (because it's not the default skin any more).
+1 for this as well. Andreea has been doing manual tests on Colibri in
parallel with Flamingo and will probably continue to do so for a few
more versions.
Thanks,
Silvia
Thanks,
Marius
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one
skin
(Colibri).
>
> Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test
framework to work with Flamingo.
>
> After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with
Colibri.
>
> The question is:
> * Is this ok?
> * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this
case
we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object
to have various implementations.
>
> One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus.
Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3
buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs 
27 Aug
27 Aug
10:13 a.m.
+1 for supporting only one skin in tests
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one skin (Colibri).
Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test framework to work
with Flamingo.
After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with Colibri.
The question is:
* Is this ok?
* Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this case we would
need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object to have various
implementations.
One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus. Another example
is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3 buttons. Etc.
Any opinion?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Thomas Mortagne
5:44 p.m.
+1 as well, since we already went in that direction with the tests and of
obvious resource limitation.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com
wrote:
> +1 for supporting only one skin in tests
>
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:12 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > ATM our selenium2-based test fwk for functional tests only supports one
> skin (Colibri).
> >
> > Guillaume is currently fixing the functional tests by changing our test
> framework to work with Flamingo.
> >
> > After his changes are made our framework won’t work anymore with Colibri.
> >
> > The question is:
> > * Is this ok?
> > * Do we want to change the framework to support multiple skins? In this
> case we would need to introduce Interfaces everywhere, for each Page Object
> to have various implementations.
> >
> > One example of difference is Hover vs Clicking for the top level menus.
> Another example is that we don’t have anymore a contentmenu; it’s 3
> buttons. Etc.
> >
> > Any opinion?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
3726
days inactive
3734
days old
16 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Andreea Popescu -
Denis Gervalle -
Eduard Moraru -
Manuel Smeria -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Silvia Rusu -
Thomas Mortagne -
vincent＠massol.net