Vincent Massol wrote: Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of providing a flag to switch? -0 I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very user-friendly. This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since

semantically speaking, now that the page title is displayed with h1, everything under should be a h2, in a "normal" semantic. I don't see any use case when, in the document, there is a heading as important as the page title, but I agree we should allow it (if a user really really wants it). Actually, that's how I now see the structure of a document (how it should be built to be "correct"): title: |Page_title________________ == first section lorem ipsum == second section lorem ipsum Now, this would require adjusting section editing and default toc. In a doc structure based on h1 sections, we should provide section editing for the document title (so that the first section of the document can be edited through its associated H1) -- would this actually make sense for the user? otherwise 0, it's hard to have an opinion, nothing seems right... Thanks, Anca _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Thomas Mortagne wrote: > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 15:18, Anca Luca<ancapaula.luca(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >> Vincent Massol wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final >>> release so that we're all on the same page. >>> >>> After talking to several people here's what I propose: >>> >>> 1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and >>> the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 >>> 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions >> Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 >> instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses >> or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would >> only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of >> providing a flag to switch? >> >> >>> 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same >>> as Colibri) >> -0 >> >> I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better >> skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if >> people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it >> themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very >> user-friendly. >> >>> 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and >>> remove the header 1 in page content)

>> This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since

Then it should be implemented with a h2 (so that there is semantic room for the doc title), or we drop the idea of a document title that encompasses the whole content (because there is no way we can build a coherent document from a semantic pov, wiki & html).

Thanks, Anca _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 16:09, Marius Dumitru Florea&lt;mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: > Anca Luca wrote: >> Thomas Mortagne wrote: >>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 15:18, Anca Luca&lt;ancapaula.luca(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: >>>> Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Let's vote on how to handle the title behavior for the 2.0 final >>>>> release so that we're all on the same page. >>>>> >>>>> After talking to several people here's what I propose: >>>>> >>>>> 1) We remove the top level H1 only if the title compat flag is on and >>>>> the title H1 is the same as the top level H1 >>>>> 2) The compat flag is off by default in our distributions >>>> Couldn't this be fixed by migration so that we make sure all documents in a 2.0 >>>> instance are "clean": they have a title, same as the heading 1 if title misses >>>> or just the title if title = heading 1? If I understand correctly this would >>>> only be needed by upgraders, so why not build them correct documents instead of >>>> providing a flag to switch? >>>> >>>> >>>>> 3) We modify the Toucan and Albatross skins to display the title (same >>>>> as Colibri) >>>> -0 >>>> >>>> I don't like this idea of modifying the old skins: we're building a new, better >>>> skin, right? it's one of the improvements of the new skin over old skins, if >>>> people want to still use toucan and benefit from this, they should hack it >>>> themselves at their own risks (if any). It seems cleaner, even if not very >>>> user-friendly. >>>> >>>>> 4) We modify the Default XE XAR to have titles for all its pages (and >>>>> remove the header 1 in page content) >>>> This should also mean changing all =headings= to ==headings==, since > On the contrary, this means promoting level 2 headings to level 1 since > the level one has become the title. But this should happen only to > documents that have just one H1 that plays the role of a title. > >>> This is wrong, = does not mean page title, it mean level one section >>> header. The fact that the graphical title of the page is a <h1> or >>> something else is a skin implementation details it should not impact >>> the content that way. >> Then it should be implemented with a h2 (so that there is semantic room for the >> doc title), or we drop the idea of a document title that encompasses the whole >> content (because there is no way we can build a coherent document from a >> semantic pov, wiki & html). > IMO the title of a document is _above_ the level one headings which are > like the chapters of a book.

+1

Details for 4): - add titles - remove h1 since they're not needed anymore - move existing h2 to h1

Vincent Massol wrote: Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does: - the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element.

What happens with dynamic titles?

> This should cover both user upgrades and new behavior. Note that user > custom skin will still work in most cases since they're not normally > touching the contentview.vm file.

Vincent Massol wrote: Here's what Mediawiki (on Wikipedia) does: - the document title is displayed using a h1 id=firstHeading - the content allows using =titles=, which generate h1 - by a natural process, contributors rarely use =titles= in documents So I continue to think that we should allow users to enter = titles, and they should generate h1. There is no rule against a document having more than one h1. Again, the document title is in the <title> element, not in the <h1> element.

What happens with dynamic titles?

Anca Luca wrote: Because it is the best element for the task at hand. It still is a title, so it deserves a heading element.