[xwiki-devs] Changes in the XEM distribution to workspace cause unexpected issue to existing XEM users and even new ones
7 Dec
2011
7 Dec
'11
1:14 p.m.
Hi devs,
I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an existing
farm.
I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be created
without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains the
workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this does
not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since existing
user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have been
-1 if I would have been aware of this.
Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
- For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the
server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an error,
since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
- For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement on
there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and
again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the home
page cause the creation of a new database.
IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I propose
that the creation of the new database requires at least a user
confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be tried
anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a other
new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user
will have an easy way out.
WDYT ?
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
7 Dec
7 Dec
4:15 p.m.
Hi Denis, devs,
Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC about
this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM:
Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" documentation
section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of XEM.
While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really care
about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create one
for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace module)
depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of setup
(and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing
WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new
homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up and
going and you can create a new workspace immediately.
This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for
regular use cases.
If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template
instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and
change the attached template xar.
If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options:
1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the
imported xar.
2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm related
modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by
using the Extension Manager.
Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' proposal.
I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the
WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click
there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create
workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user
finishes the installation.
However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* first
startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach
displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager plugin
fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because XEM is
started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have create
database rights.
In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for the
results of the vote...
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
Hi devs,
I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an existing
farm.
I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be created
without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains the
workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this does
not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since existing
user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have been
-1 if I would have been aware of this.
Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
- For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the
server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an error,
since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
- For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement on
there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and
again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the home
page cause the creation of a new database.
IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I propose
that the creation of the new database requires at least a user
confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be tried
anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a other
new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user
will have an easy way out.
WDYT ?
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
6:28 p.m.
Hi,
I see the problem which happens during this "transition phase [1]"
while upgrading an existing XEM.
Maybe we can mitigate it by checking if we are upgrading a farm or
installing a fresh XEM.
In the first case the Workspace template creation can be avoided
(because it's clear that we are in a farm upgrade use case). And if
you really want to mix the two use cases (farm + workspaces) you can
always do it explicitly. If you are installing a fresh XEM, then no
problem: we do it as it is now.
Maybe we can improve the initial template creation by doing it from a
JS popup on the first login instead, after that the login page has
been loaded, instead of doing it directly. This would have the
advantage of showing immediately some content after the login instead
of waiting the (lengthy) creation process to complete before having a
page displayed.
WDYT?
-Fabio
[1] Transition phase towards a scenario where you will install
Workspaces or a plain WikiManager using Extension Manager from an
"empty" XE, depending on your needs.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Denis, devs,
Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC about
this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM:
Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" documentation
section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of XEM.
While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really care
about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create one
for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace module)
depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of setup
(and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing
WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new
homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up and
going and you can create a new workspace immediately.
This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for
regular use cases.
If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template
instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and
change the attached template xar.
If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options:
1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the
imported xar.
2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm related
modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by
using the Extension Manager.
Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis' proposal.
I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the
WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click
there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create
workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user
finishes the installation.
However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every* first
startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach
displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager plugin
fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because XEM is
started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have create
database rights.
In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for the
results of the vote...
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
Hi devs,
I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an existing
farm.
I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be created
without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains the
workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this does
not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since existing
user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have been
-1 if I would have been aware of this.
Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
- For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the
server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an error,
since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
- For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement on
there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and
again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the home
page cause the creation of a new database.
IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I propose
that the creation of the new database requires at least a user
confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be tried
anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a other
new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user
will have an easy way out.
WDYT ?
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
6:38 p.m.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Denis, devs,
Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC about
this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM:
Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions" documentation
section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of XEM.
While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really care
about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create one
for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace module)
depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of setup
(and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing
WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new
homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up and
going and you can create a new workspace immediately.
This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for
regular use cases.
If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template
instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and
change the attached template xar.
But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how would
it works ?
If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2
options:
1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the
imported xar.
Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is
implemented.
2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade
only the farm related
modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by
using the Extension Manager.
This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are left
broken.
Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0
on Denis' proposal.
I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the
WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click
there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create
workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user
finishes the installation.
This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This could be,
as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that explains the needs to
create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before
proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which could
be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and to allow farm user to
prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all, creating
the template would then be the work of WorkspaceManager.Install, with a
similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all.
However, with this approach, we will be certain that
on *every* first
startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach
Not warning, but a setup proposal.
displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the
wikiManager plugin
fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because XEM is
started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have create
database rights.
And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in progress.
In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on
this. Waiting for the
results of the vote...
I really would like as well.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
Hi devs,
I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an existing
farm.
I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be created
without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains the
workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this does
not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since existing
user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have
been
-1 if I would have been aware of this.
Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
- For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the
server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an error,
since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
- For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement
on
there farm. If they delete it, it will probably
came back again and
again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the
home
page cause the creation of a new database.
IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I propose
that the creation of the new database requires at least a user
confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be tried
anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a
other
new database is under creation in case of error,
and existing farm user
will have an easy way out.
WDYT ?
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
8 Dec
8 Dec
12:10 p.m.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
you can
also update the XE xar which would cover all the admin related
stuff (administration application, activity stream, etc) that you mentioned
:)
Sure, it sounds doable.
Thanks,
Eduard
> > However, with this approach, we will
be certain that on *every* first
> > startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach
>
> Not warning, but a setup proposal.
> > displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager plugin
> > fails to create the workspace template automatically, either because XEM
> is
> > started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have create
> > database rights.
>
> And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in progress.
> > In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for the
> > results of the vote...
>
> I really would like as well.
> > > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis
Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
> > > > Hi devs,
> > > > > I have
just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an
> existing
> > > farm.
> > > I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be
> created
> > > without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to contains
> the
> > > workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this
> does
> > > not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since
> existing
> > > user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have
> > been
> > > -1 if I would have been aware of this.
> > > > >
Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
> > > > > - For
new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the
> > > server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an
> error,
> > > since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
> > > > > - For
existing user, a new database is created without there agreement
> > on
> > > there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and
> > > again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the
> > home
> > > page cause the creation of a new database.
> > > > > IMO,
these are not good first experiences with the new release. I
> propose
> > > that the creation of the new database requires at least a user
> > > confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be
> tried
> > > anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a
> > other
> > > new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm user
> > > will have an easy way out.
> > > > > WDYT
?
> > > > > --
> > > Denis Gervalle
> > > SOFTEC sa - CEO
> > > eGuilde sarl - CTO
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >
_______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> eGuilde sarl - CTO
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com> wrote:
1. Go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the workspace-template.xar
attachment with the one you`d like to use.
2. Go to WikiManager.WebHome and delete the default "workspacetemplate"
subwiki template
3. Go back on the homepage or WorkspaceManager.Install to install your new
template.
Hi Denis, devs,
Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC
about
this and generally about workspaces vs farm in
XEM:
Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions"
documentation
section for farm users that want to upgrade to
the latest version of XEM.
While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really
care
about the subwiki template and only offered the
possibility to create one
for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace
module)
depends on the existence of a workspace template
which, for ease of setup
(and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing
WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new
homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up and
going and you can create a new workspace immediately.
This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for
regular use cases.
If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template
instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and
change the attached template xar.
But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how would
it works ?
Yes. If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you
have 2 options:
1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the
imported xar.
Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is
implemented.
2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but
upgrade only the farm related
modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by
using the Extension Manager.
This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are left
broken.
Well, I should have also mentioned that, besides the farm related modules, Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue,
I`m -0 on Denis'
proposal.
I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the
WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click
there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create
workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user
finishes the installation.
This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This could be,
as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that explains the needs to
create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before
proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which could
be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and to allow farm user to
prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all, creating
the template would then be the work of WorkspaceManager.Install, with a
similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all.
12:21 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:10, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com> wrote:
related
left
Sure, but how complex it is again when a simple confirmation would do ?
be,
Sure, it sounds doable.
IMHO, this should be done before 3.3 release, else many will face the same
issue I and Ludo have had without immediately understanding what it is
happening.
Could others tell us their opinion on this ASAP since the release is coming
fast ?
I am -1 to left it as it is now.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Denis Gervalle
<dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
XEM.
one
setup
1. Go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the workspace-template.xar
attachment with the one you`d like to use.
2. Go to WikiManager.WebHome and delete the default "workspacetemplate"
subwiki template
3. Go back on the homepage or WorkspaceManager.Install to install your new
template.
Does not this seems more complex than it could be with a simple
confirmation step ?
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Denis, devs,
Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC
about
this and generally about workspaces vs farm in
XEM:
Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions"
documentation
> section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of
While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not really
care
> about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create for you
should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace
module)
> depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of > (and not the opposite :) ) is created
automatically when accessing
> WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new
> homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up
and
going and
you can create a new workspace immediately.
This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for
regular use cases.
If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template
instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and
change the attached template xar.
But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how would
it works ?
Yes. If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you
have 2 options:
1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the
imported xar.
Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is
implemented.
> 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm modules
(wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by
using the Extension Manager.
This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are broken.
Well, I should have also mentioned that, besides the farm related
modules,
you can also update the XE xar which would cover all the admin related
stuff (administration application, activity stream, etc) that you mentioned
:)
Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue,
I`m -0 on Denis'
proposal.
I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the
WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and click
there whether or not to install the workspace template. The Create
workspace page will also display this and will not work until the user
finishes the installation.
This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This could as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that
explains the needs to
create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before
proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which
could
be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and
to allow farm user to
prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all,
creating
the template would then be the work of
WorkspaceManager.Install, with a
similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all.
Thanks,
Eduard
plugin
the
error,
> > since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
> >
> > - For existing user, a new database is created without there agreement
user
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
However, with this approach, we will be certain
that on *every* first
startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach
Not warning, but a setup proposal.
> displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager > fails to create the workspace template
automatically, either because
XEM
is
> started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have
create
database
rights.
And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in progress.
> In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for results
of the vote...
I really would like as well.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an
existing
> farm.
> I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be
created
> without any confirmation on first access to
Main.WebHome to contains
the
> workspace template required by the new
workspace feature. IMO, this
does
> not follow the vote we have had before about
this change, since
existing
user of
XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would have
been
> -1 if I would have been aware of this.
>
> Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
>
> - For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the
> server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an on
propose
there farm. If they delete it, it will probably
came back again and
again... They really need to understand that the simple access to the
home
> page cause the creation of a new database.
>
> IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I > that the creation of the new database
requires at least a user
> confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be
tried
> > anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that a
> other
> > new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm will have an easy way out.
WDYT ?
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
12:31 p.m.
I'm +1 to do it before the release and +1 for a very simple confirmation.
I'm +0 for linking to an Install page which also should have a confirmation.
IMHO we should never do "serious" stuff on a DB or else without a
confirmation.
Ludovic
2011/12/8 Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu>
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:10, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com> wrote:
setup
would
new
related
> > modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or by
left
mentioned
be,
Sure, it sounds doable.
IMHO, this should be done before 3.3 release, else many will face the same
issue I and Ludo have had without immediately understanding what it is
happening.
Could others tell us their opinion on this ASAP since the release is coming
fast ?
I am -1 to left it as it is now.
wrote:
agreement
> > on
> > > there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again and
> > > again... They really need to understand that the simple access to
the
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Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
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--
Ludovic Dubost
Founder and CEO
Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Denis Gervalle
<dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
XEM.
> >
> > While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not
really
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Denis, devs,
Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on IRC
about
this and generally about workspaces vs farm in
XEM:
Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions"
documentation
> section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version of care
> about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to create
one
for you
should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace
module)
> depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of > (and not the opposite :) ) is created
automatically when accessing
> WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new
> homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is up
and
> > going and you can create a new workspace immediately.
> > This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step for
> > regular use cases.
> >
> > If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base template
> > instead of the default XE, you can go to WorkspaceManager.Install and
> > change the attached template xar.
> >
>
> But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how it works
?
Yes.
1. Go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the workspace-template.xar
attachment with the one you`d like to use.
2. Go to WikiManager.WebHome and delete the default "workspacetemplate"
subwiki template
3. Go back on the homepage or WorkspaceManager.Install to install your template.
Does not this seems more complex than it could be with a simple
confirmation step ?
If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you
have 2 options:
1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from the
imported xar.
Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is
implemented.
> 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm using the Extension Manager.
This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are broken.
Well, I should have also mentioned that, besides the farm related
modules,
you can also update the XE xar which would cover all the admin related
stuff (administration application, activity stream, etc) that you :)
Sure, but how complex it is again when a simple confirmation would do ?
>
> > Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis'
> proposal.
> >
> > I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to the
> > WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and
click
> > there whether or not to install the
workspace template. The Create
> > workspace page will also display this and will not work until the
user
finishes the installation.
This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This could as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that
explains the needs to
create a template DB for workspace and provide an OK/Cancel before
proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which
could
be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and
to allow farm user to
prevent that DB to be created. It should be a cancel once for all,
creating
the template would then be the work of
WorkspaceManager.Install, with a
similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all.
Thanks,
Eduard
plugin
progress.
However, with this approach, we will be certain
that on *every* first
startup of XEM, *any* user will see a warning. The existing approach
Not warning, but a setup proposal.
> displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager > fails to create the workspace template
automatically, either because
XEM
is
> started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have
create
> > database rights.
> >
>
> And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in
> In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting for
the
> > results of the vote...
> >
>
> I really would like as well.
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> > >
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an
> existing
> > > farm.
> > > I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be
> created
> > > without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to
contains
> the
> > > workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, this
> does
> > > not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since
> existing
> > > user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would
have
been
> -1 if I would have been aware of this.
>
> Creating the new database this way has for me some inconveniences:
>
> - For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the
> server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an
error,
> > since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
> >
> > - For existing user, a new database is created without there > > home
> > > page cause the creation of a new database.
> > >
> > > IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I
> propose
> > > that the creation of the new database requires at least a user
> > > confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not be
> tried
> > > anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware that
a
>
other
> > new database is under creation in case of error, and existing farm
user
> will
have an easy way out.
>
> WDYT ?
>
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> eGuilde sarl - CTO
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
_______________________________________________
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10 Dec
10 Dec
3:54 a.m.
Done.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
I'm +1 to do it before the release and +1 for a
very simple confirmation.
I'm +0 for linking to an Install page which also should have a
confirmation.
IMHO we should never do "serious" stuff on a DB or else without a
confirmation.
Ludovic
2011/12/8 Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu>
create
new
the
by
> > > using the Extension Manager.
> > >
> >
> > This is far from enough for a real upgrade, since many admin stuff are
the
could
Sure, it sounds doable.
IMHO, this should be done before 3.3 release, else many will face the same
for
this
inconveniences:
be
--
Ludovic Dubost
Founder and CEO
Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
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On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:10, Eduard Moraru
<enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:15, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Denis, devs,
> > >
> > > Just for the record, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned on
IRC
> > about
> > > this and generally about workspaces vs farm in XEM:
> > >
> > > Normally, this should be covered in an "Upgrade Instructions"
> > documentation
> > > section for farm users that want to upgrade to the latest version
of
XEM.
> >
> > While the old XEM (specifically the WikiManager module) did not
really
> > care
> > > about the subwiki template and only offered the possibility to > one
> > > for you should you need it, the new XEM (specifically the Workspace
> > module)
> > > depends on the existence of a workspace template which, for ease of
> setup
> > > (and not the opposite :) ) is created automatically when accessing
> > > WorkspaceManager.Install. This document is also included in the new
> > > homepage so that, once you open XEM the first time, everything is
up
> and
> > > going and you can create a new workspace immediately.
> > > This was done for simplicity and for eliminating one install step
for
> > > regular use cases.
> > >
> > > If you want to do advanced setup, like specify your own base
template
> > > instead of the default XE, you can
go to WorkspaceManager.Install
and
> >
change the attached template xar.
> >
>
> But you will have a template already installed by that time, so how
would
it works
?
Yes.
1. Go to WorkspaceManager.Install and change the workspace-template.xar
attachment with the one you`d like to use.
2. Go to WikiManager.WebHome and delete the default "workspacetemplate"
subwiki template
3. Go back on the homepage or WorkspaceManager.Install to install your template.
Does not this seems more complex than it could be with a simple
confirmation step ?
>
> >
> > > If you don`t want to use Workspaces, then you have 2 options:
> > > 1. Upgrade selectively and exclude Workspace related things from > imported xar.
>
Need to have RTFM first and have a good knowledge of how workspace is
implemented.
> 2. Don`t upgrade the XEM distribution, but upgrade only the farm
related
> > modules (wikiManager component and application) either manually, or left
mentioned
broken.
Well, I should have also mentioned that, besides the farm related
modules,
you can also update the XE xar which would cover all the admin related
stuff (administration application, activity stream, etc) that you :)
Sure, but how complex it is again when a simple confirmation would do ?
>
> >
> > > Now, coming back to the actual discussed issue, I`m -0 on Denis'
> > proposal.
> > >
> > > I see this implemented as a warning in the homepage that links to > >
WorkspaceManager.Install page that tells the user to go there and
click
> > there whether or not to install the
workspace template. The Create
> > workspace page will also display this and will not work until the
user
> > > finishes the installation.
> > >
> >
> > This does not have to be out of the home page as a warning. This > be,
> > as Fabio proposed, a popup on the home page that explains the needs
to
> > create a template DB for workspace and
provide an OK/Cancel before
> > proceeding. This have both the advantage of not creating a DB (which
> could
> > be long) with the acknowledgment of the user, and to allow farm user
to
> > prevent that DB to be created. It
should be a cancel once for all,
> creating
> > the template would then be the work of WorkspaceManager.Install,
with a
similar procedure, but not a cancel once for all.
issue I and Ludo have had without immediately
understanding what it is
happening.
Could others tell us their opinion on this ASAP since the release is
coming
fast ?
I am -1 to left it as it is now.
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> >
> > > However, with this approach, we will be certain that on *every*
first
> > > startup of XEM, *any* user will
see a warning. The existing
approach
> > >
> >
> > Not warning, but a setup proposal.
> >
> >
> > > displays an error as Denis is mentioning *only* if the wikiManager
> plugin
> > > fails to create the workspace template automatically, either
because
XEM
progress.
> >
> >
> > > In any case, I`d like to see some other opinions on this. Waiting is
> started on HSQLDB or because the xwiki database user does not have
create
> > database rights.
> >
>
> And when the error occurs, the user is conscious of what is in the
> > results of the vote...
> >
>
> I really would like as well.
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl(a)softec.lu>
wrote:
> >
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > I have just installed the XEM distribution has an upgrade of an
> existing
> > > farm.
> > > I have discovered that the new distribution cause an new DB to be
> created
> > > without any confirmation on first access to Main.WebHome to
contains
> > the
> > > > workspace template required by the new workspace feature. IMO, >
does
> > > not follow the vote we have had before about this change, since
> existing
> > > user of XEM are immediately impacted by the new feature. I would
have
> > > been
> > > > -1 if I would have been aware of this.
> > > >
> > > > Creating the new database this way has for me some > > > >
> > > > - For new user, after having a possibly hard time setting up the
> > > > server, there first successful access on the wiki could end in an
> > error,
> > > > since the creation of the new database could goes wrong.
> > > >
> > > > - For existing user, a new database is created without there
> agreement
> > > on
> > > > there farm. If they delete it, it will probably came back again
and
> >
> again... They really need to understand that the simple access to
the
> > > home
> > > > page cause the creation of a new database.
> > > >
> > > > IMO, these are not good first experiences with the new release. I
> > propose
> > > > that the creation of the new database requires at least a user
> > > > confirmation, and that if the user do not confirm, it should not
> > tried
> > > > anymore. This will have two advantage, the user is well aware
that
a
> > > other
> > > > new database is under creation in case of error, and existing
farm
user
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > will have an easy way out.
> >
> > WDYT ?
> >
> > --
> > Denis Gervalle
> > SOFTEC sa - CEO
> > eGuilde sarl - CTO
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > devs(a)xwiki.org
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs(a)xwiki.org
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
eGuilde sarl - CTO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
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days inactive
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7 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Denis Gervalle -
Eduard Moraru -
Fabio Mancinelli -
Ludovic Dubost