1 Jun
2005
1 Jun
'05
9:50 p.m.
Hi,
I'd like to be sure I'm doing the right thing, hence this email. Are we
following any rule for deciding whether or not a proposal should be applied
or not?
For example, I've just sent an email about modifying the XWiki constructor
interface. Ludovic has answered but not other committers. Should I go ahead
or do I need to wait for others to chime in?
Are we following the ASF rules defined here:
http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management? However this is
not enough.
Here's an additional rule followed on most Apache projects:
"
The development process is intentionally lightweight; like other
Apache projects, the committers decide which changes may be committed
to the repository. Three +1 ('yes' votes) with no -1 ('no' votes or
vetoes) are needed to approve a code change. For efficiency, some code
changes from some contributors (e.g. feature additions, bug fixes) may
be approved in advance, in which case they may be committed first and
changed as needed, with conflicts resolved by majority vote of the
committers.
"
Is this too heavyweight? Is it ok? What do you want?
Should I wait before committing the xwiki constructor change I have
proposed?
The reason I'm asking this is because I am a new member of the community and
I'm sure other newcomers may also have some doubt when they want to change
existing code.
Thanks
-Vincent
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1 Jun
1 Jun
10:07 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
Hi Vincent,
Most of us are new members, that I think the reason why we all wait for Ludovic advices
and follow his decision.
If we still want to follow eXtreme programming principles as Ludovic wanted in the
beginning of the project, according to collective code ownership principle you should be
able to commit your change as soon as they don't break existing tests and that you
pair programmed them.
As pair programming is not possible, and because we are too few to wait for 3 yes vote, I
think that 1 or 2 vote should be enough.
10:23 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
Yes I agree with Alexis.. The way I see it:
Rule 1: do not break tests. Only case is if you break it because of
external stuff (build process, stuff like that). In this case it's
allowed but should be fixed.
Rule 2: ask for forgivness better than permission. It's good to inform
and ask for other people's opinion because it educates the group about
the development process and the code itself. Now it should not slow us
down too much. We are not at a size where 3 votes is absolutely necessary.
Of course I have the most experience with the code base, so there is a
good chance other people won't yet see problems that could occur because
of certain changes. But generally speaking I trust the judgement of the
fine people in the group. If they would like something change I guess
there are good reasons and it is a progress, so unless I see a big
problem I'm ok with it.
So I would say.. let's vote when we feel it is necessary to vote.. let's
not make this mandatory. When you ask for opinions, if nobody screams,
let's go ahead.
Ludovic
Alexis KARTMANN a écrit :
Hi Vincent,
Most of us are new members, that I think the reason why we all wait
for Ludovic advices and follow his decision.
If we still want to follow eXtreme programming principles as Ludovic
wanted in the beginning of the project, according to collective code
ownership principle you should be able to commit your change as soon
as they don't break existing tests and that you pair programmed them.
As pair programming is not possible, and because we are too few to
wait for 3 yes vote, I think that 1 or 2 vote should be enough.
--
Ludovic Dubost
XPertNet: http://www.xpertnet.fr/
Blog: http://www.ludovic.org/blog/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost AIM: nvludo Yahoo: ludovic
10:38 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
-----Original Message-----
From: Ludovic Dubost [mailto:ludovic@xwiki.com]
Sent: mercredi 1 juin 2005 22:23
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
Yes I agree with Alexis.. The way I see it:
Rule 1: do not break tests. Only case is if you break it because of
external stuff (build process, stuff like that). In this case it's
allowed but should be fixed.
Rule 2: ask for forgivness better than permission. It's good to inform
and ask for other people's opinion because it educates the group about
the development process and the code itself. Now it should not slow us
down too much. We are not at a size where 3 votes is absolutely necessary.
Of course I have the most experience with the code base, so there is a
good chance other people won't yet see problems that could occur because
of certain changes. But generally speaking I trust the judgement of the
fine people in the group. If they would like something change I guess
there are good reasons and it is a progress, so unless I see a big
problem I'm ok with it.
So I would say.. let's vote when we feel it is necessary to vote.. let's
not make this mandatory. When you ask for opinions, if nobody screams,
let's go ahead.
Ok, my email wasn't clear. What you have said is exactly the way it happens
at Apache for example. My question was to clarify the "if nobody screams".
For example, I can send an email, wait 1 minute and then commit. Nobody has
screamed. Then someone says, "hey hold on, I don't agree with this". Taking
it back can take time, etc.
But ok, I hear you. At this point you don't care too much. I'll continue
doing what I've done so far by publishing my intent, wait a few hours and do
it.
Thanks
-Vincent
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10:28 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
Hi Alexis,
Ludovic is the creator sure but he's only one person and more and more
people are contributing. I'm sure Ludovic wants a rule where committers are
equal and that decisions be taken collectively. We just need to make the
rules clear (hence my email).
XP simply recommend collective code ownership. It does not mention anything
about the process for deciding on code refactoring/proposals. When the
change is simple and you master the topic you just go ahead. The question
arise when you change an important public API (as is my case) or when you
don't know enough about the code you're modifying.
Thanks
-Vincent
_____
From: Alexis KARTMANN [mailto:alexis@kartmann.com]
Sent: mercredi 1 juin 2005 22:07
To: xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
Subject: Re: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
Hi Vincent,
Most of us are new members, that I think the reason why we all wait for
Ludovic advices and follow his decision.
If we still want to follow eXtreme programming principles as Ludovic wanted
in the beginning of the project, according to collective code ownership
principle you should be able to commit your change as soon as they don't
break existing tests and that you pair programmed them.
As pair programming is not possible, and because we are too few to wait for
3 yes vote, I think that 1 or 2 vote should be enough.
10:49 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
Yes indeed.. the public APIs are the most sensitive parts..
Basically anything in com.xpn.xwiki.api should be supplemented but not
changed..
We have little control about which the code that uses these APIs so we
would break existing applications..
We can of course depreciate APIs.
The more collective our decisions are the better it is. Now it should
not slow us down..
Trust is very important.. Basically it's about each person's judgement
to feel when it's needed to ask.
Ludovic
Vincent Massol a écrit :
Hi Alexis,
Ludovic is the creator sure but he’s only one person and more and more
people are contributing. I’m sure Ludovic wants a rule where
committers are equal and that decisions be taken collectively. We just
need to make the rules clear (hence my email).
XP simply recommend collective code ownership. It does not mention
anything about the process for deciding on code refactoring/proposals.
When the change is simple and you master the topic you just go ahead.
The question arise when you change an important public API (as is my
case) or when you don’t know enough about the code you’re modifying.
Thanks
-Vincent
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Alexis KARTMANN [mailto:alexis@kartmann.com]
*Sent:* mercredi 1 juin 2005 22:07
*To:* xwiki-dev(a)objectweb.org
*Subject:* Re: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
Hi Vincent,
Most of us are new members, that I think the reason why we all wait
for Ludovic advices and follow his decision.
If we still want to follow eXtreme programming principles as Ludovic
wanted in the beginning of the project, according to collective code
ownership principle you should be able to commit your change as soon
as they don't break existing tests and that you pair programmed them.
As pair programming is not possible, and because we are too few to
wait for 3 yes vote, I think that 1 or 2 vote should be enough.
--
Ludovic Dubost
XPertNet: http://www.xpertnet.fr/
Blog: http://www.ludovic.org/blog/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost AIM: nvludo Yahoo: ludovic
10:55 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-dev] [Process] Decision management
On 6/1/05, Ludovic Dubost <ludovic(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
Yes indeed.. the public APIs are the most sensitive parts..
Basically anything in com.xpn.xwiki.api should be supplemented but not
changed..
We have little control about which the code that uses these APIs so we
would break existing applications..
We can of course depreciate APIs.
The more collective our decisions are the better it is. Now it should
not slow us down..
Trust is very important.. Basically it's about each person's judgement
to feel when it's needed to ask.
For this kind of change I think the better choice is 3 +1 containing
at least one from the contributors and one from the XpertNet staff.
what do you think about this?
--
http://www.sport42.net - http://fr.runnerslifestyle.com
Tel : 06.84.50.33.49
skype: jeremi23
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6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Alexis KARTMANN -
jeremi joslin -
Ludovic Dubost -
Vincent Massol