Re: [xwiki-devs] [VOTE] Is it OK to edit a standard color theme

Hi, I'm sorry, but nothing related to configuration inside pages looks very "wiki-like" to me. We're not talking about content pages here, but rather about a preset/pack of preferences (I would actually call them more code than configuration, to be honest, since we're talking about CSS and LESS) which have an identity. Once you start changing their values, they lose their identity and you can't call them "Iceberg" or "Charcoal" (etc.) anymore. Once you customize them, they are "CustomIceberg" or "MyIceberg" (etc.), if you really want to preserve a hint of the base of your customizations. IMO, we should have a distinction between the default color themes and the user contributed ones (this also includes customized copies of default ones). I believe this would actually help the user in getting a better understanding of what is going on instead of asking them to digg through the document history, look at diffs, etc. Nobody wants to do that. I don't like (-0) the idea of DefaultColorTheme being a useless copy of Iceberg. If we want, we could store in an unexposed property of the FlamingoThemes application what is the default color theme, so that the user can have a "default" option or a "Reset to default" when choosing what theme to use. Also, new versions of XWiki could update that property's value (as part of the code), for when we will want to introduce a new "default" theme for future versions of XWiki. I believe users need to be able to see and easily experience new features, without asking them to drop their customizations or write code (i.e. compared to what they would get if they intall a new/clean XWiki instance with the latest version). I do like (+1) the other 2 bullet points of Approach 1 ("standard"). Hitting "Customize" when using a standard theme should generate you a copy for your customization which you can then select from the list and apply. Heck, we could even make a nice distinction in the UI (or at least in the Select input) between the standard themes and the custom(-ized) ones. IMO, the important part to distinguish the fact that the configuration part (for a regular, non-dev) is choosing *which* color theme to use, while the customization (i.e. coding, done by someone that understands CSS/LESS, in this case) part is editing/customizing your own version of a color theme. Should be easy to make the choice if we look at it this way, since it would be similar to what we do for other parts of XWiki that need either configuration (i.e. choosing *what* to use) and that might need also some customization (i.e. modifying or defining *how* that choice will perform its job). General note/rant/reiteration: I am very much in favor of resisting the urge to "edit everything" (that's what actually got us to the current "problem"), even if it is a wiki at heart, since no software maintainers can provide you any time of support or upgrade paths that can factor in the fact that you are just barging in and making a beautiful mess of the code they developed. IMO, we just need to draw the line where the software ends and the wiki begins, otherwise users will be trapped/stuck with outdated and un-upgradable XWiki versions and will be regretting their choice. We need to think of the admins as well, and not only from the POV of the dev that wants to make everything possible. You should not need a developer (possibly the original developer of the project/customizations) in order to make a really basic operation such as an upgrade. Maybe I'm saying "sometimes less is more"? :) Thanks, Eduard On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: