Hi Sergiu,
On 3/22/07, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu.dumitriu(a)gmail.com> wrote:
  Just to clarify some things which might cause
confusion:
 On 3/20/07, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu.dumitriu(a)gmail.com > wrote:
 On 3/20/07, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > On Mar 20, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:
 >
 > Hi,
 >
 > To me this seems to have too much Java. I was thinking of a more 
 wiki-like
solution, using documents, tags and POXO (plain old xwiki objects
 :p ).
  >
 >
 >
 > We can discuss pros and cons if you want. Could you explain the solution 
 you
would prefer over the one below and why?
 XWiki promotes the idea that it allows easy collaborative web application 
development. Such an application might want to add an entry in the menu, or
 a [ del.icio.us] link to the document footer.
  1. If we require users to write a java class,
compile it, package it in a 
 jar and distribute it, then we lose the
collaborative/online/easy parts.
  2. If we list a number of interfaces that can be
extended, then we would 
 probably have forgotten the document footer. So we limit
the extension
 points drastically. On the other hand, if we do list all the extension
 points, then we'll have minor releases with something like "added an EP for
 this and that", and we'll have dozens of interfaces.
  3. I still dream of the wiki that supports
importable xar-lets (well, 
 named differently, as we agreed .xar is not a good
extension), which can
 contribute anything, from simple pages to complete skins, interface
 elements, new classes/templates/sheets. Interface elements seem hard to add
 if we require java classes, right?
 I have developed some Firefox extensions in the past, so I am a bit biased 
 when I
insist on taking a XUL-like approach. Here are some ideas (see also
 
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-649 ):
 1. Right now we are putting Interface Elements (IE for short, also stands 
 for
Interface Extension) manually in the current skin. The only thing
 aggregated are the panels. Each of these elements is put in a <div>, maybe
 with an id and class. In XUL, each element having an id is a possible
 extension point (EP for short). It would be hard to use divs and ids, that's
 why we should replace these with something like #startelement("id",
"class")
 and #endelement("id" "class"). These macros create extension points,
and
 they aggregate any content that wants to be included in here. (as a bonus,
 we can keep a stack of open elements, and when we close an element (with an
 id) we can automatically close the missing #endelement-s)
 
In your example you expanded #startelement some times to a div tag,
but some other time to an img tag (which was wrapped in a div just to
make things fit). This probably means in the end you would have a
#startelement("div" "id" "class") in the first case, and a
#startelement("img" "id" "class") in the second. So one more
"tag"
argument.
To me this seems like reinventing HTML tags in Velocity. Why couldn't
we do it in plain HTML using id's and classes for the usual HTML
elements (not necessarily divs)? Every element that wants to be an
extension point could also have class "ep". At this point I don't see
why this wouldn't work. We could just pass the page first through a
very simple "extension renderer", which might even expand begin and
end tags to velocity #startelement-s and #endelement-s, and then leave
the work to Velocity.
The advantage of this would be a very simple syntax with which
designers are already used to (plain HTML), rather that one that looks
like HTML but with an awkward syntax.
  - Any one of "id" and "class" can
be missing, but not both at the same time.
 - If an ID is used more than one time, then it is an interface error. We
 should provide either a namespace-like feature ("ns", "id",
"class"), or
 require (recommend) a safe naming convention. However, we don't need another
 stack trace or not-so-user-friendly error message, we should just ignore
 this error, and the result is that both elements have the same extensions.
 2. An IE that wants to extend something can specify an id or/and class 
 name, a
position (before, after, at the begin, at the end), and some
 ordering hints. And the content, of course. What's more, an IE can add new
 EPs. In the wiki/velocity world, this is best accomplished using XObjects.
 - The content can be static text, velocity or groovy code, or a simple call
 to a java method (we still need a scripting language to make the call).
 - If an IE can add content to a class of elements, we need to make sure that
 the context is known. For example, if we make an extension that adds
 permalinks to comments, how do we identify the comment? This requires that
 each EP also list the context-dependent variables that are available, and
 these variables should have the same name under all skins.
 - XObject means XWiki document objects.
 2a. If we want to push things to an advanced level, we can make the 
 selection not
just by an id or classname, but something like (basic) XPath
 or like the css (basic) selectors.
  3. For java, we can create an interface
equivalent to the EP XWiki class. 
 This has the advantages that:
  - it's only one interface, similar in Java
and the wiki
 - it can extend anything 
 - This is an AND item, not an XOR one. So we have both wiki EP+IE, and java
 EP+IE, sharing the same structure. So the java interface looks like the wiki
 class, and a java implementation does the same thing as a wiki object.
 - "It can extend anything" means it can be an Interface Extension for any
 Extension point defined in the wiki or in another java interface component.
 4. #startelement and #endelement are implemented in java, by one or more 
components (at least one for java IE and one for wiki IE). In order to speed
 things up, we can make a cache of the extension points. When the platform
 start, it should search for the available extensions, and already prepare
 the list of elements to be added for each element. When startelement is
 called, don't search for anything, just flush the prepared list. We register
 a listener, so when a page is saved, check if it contains an IE object and
 update the affected list of extensions.
  5. We should document the extension points
present in the skins. First of 
 all, we should identify a core list of EPs that
should exist in all skins,
 with the same id/class. Each skin can add new EPs, which must be documented,
 and we should warn (outside) developers that only core EPs are guaranteed to
 exist in all the skins.
 As I said above in another comment, each EP should also list the
 context-dependent variables that can be used, and when they can be used: at
 the start or/and at the end.
 6. Each xarlet/plugin should list in the documentation the EPs affected 
 and the
EPs added. We can have extensions (xarlets) that mainly add a new
 EP, which other xarlets can use (like greasemonkey does for firefox).
 WDYT?
 Sergiu 
 An example is needed for a better understanding:
 Scenario: Comments currently don't have user pictures attached (not in the
 albatross skin). How does an extension that wants to add them work?
 Step 1: defining the extension points
 The comments should be defined as extension points
 #foreach($comment in $comments)
 #startelement("comment_${comment.number}" "comment")
 #startelement("" "commentauthor")${ comment.author} said:
#endelement(""
 "commentauthor")
 #startelement(""
"commentbody")${comment.content}#endelement(""
 "commentbody")
 #endelement("comment_${ comment.number}" "comment")
 #end
 
Here is how the same thing would look like in HTML:
#foreach($comment in $comments)
<div id="comment_${comment.number}" class="ep comment">
   <div class="ep commentauthor">${ comment.author} said:</div>
   <div class="commentbody">${comment.content}</div>
</div>
#end
To me it looks a lot cleaner since I don't have to care how these
things are handled internally. Maybe during processing everything is
expanded to the version using velocity macros Sergiu presented, but as
an interface designer why should I care about that?
Also notice that I left out the ep class for the "commentbody" just to
exemplify that it can be a lot easier done. In this case this would be
a normal div which nobody can extend (which probably makes sense in a
lot of cases).
  A comment is an extension point with the id of the
form "comment_<number>"
 and the class "comment". It contains two sub-EPs, for the author and the
 content. The context dependent variable is $comment
 Step 2: defining the extension
 There should be a document named (for example) Extensions.CommentAvatar,
 with an attached object with the class Extensions.ExtensionClass
 object.name = Avatar for comments
 object.selector = .comment
 ( .class selects a class and #id selects an id )
 object.position = start
 object.orderRules = first
 object.content = #startelement(""
 "commentavatar")$xwiki.getAvatar($comment.author)#endelement(""
 "commentavatar")
 
What about something like this?
object.content=<img src="$xwiki.getAvatar($comment.author)" class="ep
commentavatar"/>
  Note that this avatar is also an extension point, so
another extension can
 put something around the avatar.
 Step 3: how things work
 The core component managing extension points and interface extensions will
 detect the fact that Extensions.CommentAvatar is an InterfaceExtension and
 will register it for the elements having the class "comment"
 (object.selector). It also knows that it must be placed at the start of the
 comment (object.position ) and if no other extensions ask to be placed
 first, it will be the first one to be added (object.orderRules).
 When the rendering engine interprets the #startelement macro, it will
 trigger the extension insertion mechanism.
 - First the list of extensions to be placed before the EP is inserted (none
 here)
 - First the html code for an element start is printed : <div id="comment_2"
 class="comment">
 - Then the list of extension that are to be placed at the start of an
 element (but inside) are inserted. In this case, CommentsAvatar. The content
 of the object.content is parsed and then it is copied to the output. We need
 to parse it first because it contains velocity code that must be executed.
 Because it also defines an EP, there will be a recursive call following the
 same stes. Result: <div class="commentavatar"><img src="
my.png"/></div>
 - The content of the comment is parsed. Result: <div
 class="commentauthor">John Doe</div><div
class="commentbody">Nice
 thing!</div>
 - The list of extension to be placed at the end of the extension point is
 inserted. None in this case
 - The end element is printed: </div>
 - The list of extension to be placed after the extension point is inserted.
 None in this case
 So we saw:
 - how easy it is to define a new EP (just use #startelement instead of <div
 id="">)
 - what an wiki IE looks like (a simple wiki object)
 - how an IE tells what it wants to extend (selector, position, orderRules
 properties of the object)
 - how the insertion algorithm works (outputting the list of extensions
 before and after the start tag, before and after the end tag of the element)
 Using a java extension is pretty much the same, but instead of using a wiki
 object, we make a class implementing the InterfaceExtension interface,
 having getters with the same name as the wiki object (getName, getSelector,
 getContent...)
 Hope this clears the fog a bit...
 Sergiu
 -- 
Am I missing something ?
Catalin