15 Sep
2015
15 Sep
'15
3:22 p.m.
Hi,
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Guillaume Lerouge
<guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
"Main"
what
one
Usually, when hopeing for something like this to get done, I beg Vincent to
find a way ;-)
Guillaume
Thanks,
Hi Caty,
thanks for your message. Please see my answers below.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
7.2
Hi,
The current behavior was reached after many discussions.
I understand. However, I only got the time to actually try and test XE last week. And based on what Edy said, I'm
not the only one who was
surprised by the current behavior :-)
folder
Currently the concept of main wiki is expressed
as the 'home' icon, but
is
not tied to a particular space. This is something
we preserved and is
flexible enough for users with custom content to change the location of
the
homepage or assigned a different space, for a
different subwiki.
I understand this. I'm not questioning the current behavior, but the
underlying assumption. Given the new paradigm we're implementing with
nested spaces, why would an user want to change the location of the
homepage? To me, it's like saying that you would want the top level on your computer to be something else than the
hard drive itself. I don't
understand why that would be useful.
Do you have specific use cases in mind that I might be missing (other
than
"this feature existed before")?
I think the main use case when you have old/imported from somewhere else
content. Instead of having to copy all those pages inside Main space, you
just import them and reassign the homepage.
Also we needed to showcase differently spaces that are top level, vs.
pages
inside
the Main space, while having the limited number of exceptions
created for the breadcrumb.
I think there are 2 separate problems here:
1. Where should we put all of the pages that are currently in the space if we decide that not all of them
deserve to be top-level pages
2. Making it possible to have top-level pages in a coherent manner
I don't think we have such a concept of top-level pages. Nothing in Main
space is a top-level page (pages like Welcome are tool-pages).
The only top-level/important page is Main.WebHome.
For 1., pages in the Main space could stay where they are for now. "Main"
would be the legacy space where we put useful tools for the management of
your wiki.
Also think about the pages in XWiki space, that are tool-pages.
I'm discussing the answer for 2. below.
Also I wouldn't like that all the URL contain the word 'Main' Imagine
that
> besides the 'xwiki/bin/view/' we
would need to also contain the
homepage
space?
My very point is that the home page wouldn't (shouldn't?) need to be
"Main". It would be "". IE, there would be nothing in the URL to
reflect
it. It would be a representation of the wiki itself.
I understand that technically this is not feasible right now and that we
*need* to have a specific page be the home page, which is the role played
by Main.WebHome. What I'm saying is that with the new system, I'd rather
have *.../xwiki/bin/view/WebHome => **.../xwiki/bin/view/ *would be the
whole wiki. That level would be the top level space (which is exactly has been implemented by the way). Do you see what
I mean?
I see what you mean and it would be ideal, but technically right now I
don't think we can achieve that. And that's why all the problems and
exceptions.
> Although we have a convention that a certain page is displayed as
> homepage, this is not needed to be in the URL. 'home' icon is a link
for
the
homepage, not a physical location. Currently the 'Main' space can
contain pages useful for the display of the homepage, but is an
'optional'
space.
What I' suggesting is precisely that the home page be its own document at
the very top of the hierarchy, ABOVE what is currently known as
Main.WebHome. This is why while the user is on this page, she should see
only the home icon.
Is this making what I mean clearer? I'm just suggesting we push things step further in the direction that has already
been established.
:) sure, but how do we do it?
Caty
in a
be
clicked
and
the
nested
http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/DocumentLifecycle#HByusin…
Thanks,
Guillaume
Thanks,
> Caty
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Guillaume Lerouge <
guillaume(a)xwiki.com
wrote:
> Hi Edy,
>
> thanks for the explanation. Please see my feedback below.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Yes, "this is not a bug, it's a feature!" :) I had
documented it > > small
> > > paragraph [1] (see the note) but did not feel it was worthy to be
> > mentioned
> > > in the release notes. Please feel free to rephrase if needed.
> > >
> > > It's not specifically about "Main", but about the current
wiki's
> homepage
> > > (and "Main.WebHome" is the default homepage that can be changed
from
> administration).
>
Does this feature (changing the home page) still makes sense in the
context
of nested spaces? What is the point to define the
home page as
".../A/B/C"
> when based on the new system, "C" is a sub-sub page?
>
> To me, with nested spaces the home page is always the same and cannot > changed. You may want to add a redirect, but
this doesn't change the
fact
> that the top page is the same.
>
>
> > The effort is to try to avoid the situation where a regular user
lands
> on
> > > the homepage of the wiki (just accessed the wiki or maybe he > the
> > > logo) and wants to create a document. He enters the title and
presses
> >
"create". Obviously his intention was to create a page, and, more
often
> > than not (IMO at least), his actual
intention was to create a top
level
> > > document and not a child document of the wiki's current homepage.
> > >
> >
> > I agree with this. However, in that case, shouldn't the home page be
> simply
> > *https://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/* instead of
> > *https://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/Main/* ?
> >
> > Using short URLs, you could even have the home page under *https://
> > <server>/
> > *and then subpages at *https://<server>/A, **https://<server>/A/B*
so
(and
> by
> > > using the "next-next-next" mindset), creating the document
> > > "Some.Deep.Document.As.Homepage.NewDocument".
> > >
> >
> > As I said above, I actually think we should remove this feature in on. This would be in line with what most CMS do
and it would fix your
issue: any page created from the home is a sub-page at the expected
level.
>
> Image the homepage gets changed to "Some.Deep.Document.As.Homepage".
> > Without this "trick", a regular user would end up, by mistake IMO
> > context of nested spaces.
> >
> >
> > > Even if the homepage remains the default one, I see no logical
reason
in
> > spamming all the new documents with the "Main" prefix, the result
being
> > an
> > > artificially deeper hierarchy and longer URL.
> > >
> >
> > Agreed. As mentioned above, ideally we'd remove it.
> >
> >
> > > If a user really intended to create a document as a child of the
> homepage
> > > (rare usecase IMO), he has all the tools in the UI to simply do so.
> > >
> > > I agree that it's a minor consistency dent, but IMO the benefit
> justifies
> > > it.
> > >
> >
> > I don't quite agree that it's minor. One of the implied goals of >
spaces is to be able to have consistent URL naming (I know exactly
where
> page *https://<server>/A/B/C *is).
Having a special case for Main
breaks
> this.
>
> Similarly, when on the home page on the main wiki, I don't understand
why
> the breadcrumb shows both the
"home" icon and "Home" text. Why keep
both
when the
icon would be enough?
Thanks,
Guillaume
WDYT? (interested in more opinions on this since I've already had 2
> eyebrows raised on this topic :) )
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> ---------
> [1]
>
>
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <
> guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Devs,
> > > >
> > > > I started trying out XE 7.2 (SNAPSHOT from around 12:30 today)
and
I
> > was
> > > > very impressed, the changes look quite good!
> > > >
> > > > While playing with it, I had a question about how the
"Main"
space
is
Here's
> > > handled. Here's what I did:
from .../xwiki/bin/view/Main/, I
clicked
> > the
> > > > "create" button and created a sub page, then a sub-sub
page. > > what
> > > I
> > > > got:
> > > >
> > > > - .../xwiki/bin/view/SubPage/SubSubPage
> > > >
> > > > Although I was expecting this:
> > > >
> > > > - .../xwiki/bin/view/Main/SubPage/SubSubPage
> > > >
> > > > So I was wondering whether this was the expected behavior, and
> whether
> > it
> > > > had been discussed before?
> > > >
> > > > Congrats & Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Guillaume