18 Sep
2015
18 Sep
'15
2:02 p.m.
I don't know the amount of work needed, but it would be interesting to be
able to support multiple preprocessors. Flamingo could remain on BS3+Less,
but we could create a new skin on BS4.
Regarding Sass, this is personal, but I'd prefer to jump directly to
PostCSS, than to go through a Sass skin version.
Thanks,
Caty
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 1:15 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
Hi Denis,
On 18 Sep 2015 at 12:11:12, Denis Gervalle (dgl(a)softec.lu(mailto:
dgl(a)softec.lu)) wrote:
Hi Guillaume,
I would be in favor to add SASS and not replace Less with SASS if
possible.
Since the next one PostCSS is based on standard
CSS, we would have
multiple
possibilities PostCSS, LESS+PostCSS or
SASS+PostCSS.
Basically it means supporting one extended CSS language processor
followed
by one or more standard CSS processors.
Do you think that you could make your code generic enough to support both
SASS and LESS, and be prepare to append PostCSS to the overall process ?
Having this flexibility will allow backward compatibility and be open to
the future.
I am not sure waiting is the way to go, we basically need more
flexibility.
If you wait for something stable you risk to wait
for ever.
If you’re referring to my comment then you misread me :)
I’ve never said to wait for something stable… I’ve said to wait for people
to provide converters between processors and specifically to make Bootstrap
work with more than just SASS.
But overall you’re saying exactly what I was thinking (support several
options) which is good since it means we agree :)
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:01 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
wrote:
> Hi Guillaume,
>
> On 17 Sep 2015 at 18:59:22, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> gdelhumeau@xwiki.com(mailto:gdelhumeau@xwiki.com)) wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone.
> >
> > The front-end world is evolving really fast, and it's very hard to
pick
> the
> > good JavaScript framework, the good CSS preprocessor, or the good CSS
> > toolkit. It's so unpredictable that it has inspired a comic strip:
> >
>
http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2015/09/16/how-to-choose-the-right-javascript…
> > :)
> >
> > Last year, we have chosen to use Bootstrap for our new Flamingo Skin.
> > Quickly, I have discovered that we had to integrate a CSS
preprocessor
to
> > be able to customize it [1]. The
natural choice was Less, since
Bootstrap
> > and of lot themes of the web were using
it.
> >
> > Now, the situation have changed. Bootstrap 4.0 will be released soon
[2].
> > It have been entirely rewritten and
some retro-incompatibilities have
> been
> > made. But the most breaking change is that they don't use Less
anymore,
> but
> > Sass.
> >
> > By the past, they use a less-to-sass converter so they were able to
> propose
> > both versions of the framework. But now, I doubt the opposite
converter
> > could be possible since Sass have more
features than Less.
> >
> > Worse, it seems that Sass is becoming more popular than Less [3].
> >
> > Note: the current Bootstrap version, 3.x, will be maintained during
one
> > year, so we have this time to adapt.
> >
> > If we want to upgrade to Bootstrap 4, we will need to integrate the
Sass
> > preprocessor. Fortunately, we can
re-use a lot of the work that I've
done
> > for Less (the cache mechanism, etc...)
that I can modify to be more
> > generic. I don't have estimated the time it would take yet.
> >
> > If we want to upgrade Flamingo to Bootstrap 4, it will create some
css
> > breakage (and the ability to use LESS
in SSX will be loose). And we
will
> > have to convert our Less code to Sass.
> >
> > We could also decide to keep Bootstrap 3.x in Flamingo and use
Bootstrap
> 4
> > for our next skin.
>
> Why couldn’t we use LESS in SSX since in the end it generates CSS?
>
> Note that even SASS may not last very long (see this fun tweet:
> https://twitter.com/mdo/status/591364406816079873?lang=en).
>
> For example there’s postCSS now (and lots of others):
> * https://twitter.com/jeremychone/status/636570198510735360
> * https://github.com/postcss/postcss
> * "PostCSS can do the same work as preprocessors like Sass, Less, and
> Stylus. But PostCSS is modular, 3-30 times faster, and much more
powerful."
> * Some slides:
http://ai.github.io/about-postcss/en/
>
> Our only real solution would be to be able to have XWiki work with
several
> but I don’t know how hard it is to convert
the bootstrap CSS files.
>
> See for example https://github.com/OEvgeny/bootstrap-postcss
>
> Since BS3 is pretty often used, I’m pretty sure people will develop
> converters from LESS to SASS or others.
>
> So I think it’s important that we wait a bit :) We should research the
> topic though.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > [1]:
> >
>
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/ColorThemeforFlamingo#HImpl…
> > [2]: Bootstrap 4 announcement:
> > http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2015/08/19/bootstrap-4-alpha/
> > [3]: The State of Front-End Tooling – 2015:
> > http://ashleynolan.co.uk/blog/frontend-tooling-survey-2015-results
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
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