21 Nov
2012
21 Nov
'12
3:08 p.m.
Hi again,
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:48 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
very
let
and
Just to explain: what we need for xwiki's long term success are
contributions and who does contributions? Developers. Appealing to them is
needed. Right now I've never succeeded in getting any developer interested
in XWiki by presenting it to them. I believe that giving them a tool they
want to use for their job would make XWiki more appealing to them.
Following this type of logic, if you were working on Microsoft Office you'd
start adding code-highlighting features in order to make it more appealing
to developers. Sounds like a great idea, doesn't it?
What matters for the long-term success of any piece of software is to have
users who love using it. Those users do not necessarily have to be
developers. Developers tend target platforms where they know they will be
able to reach numerous users. So I'd go about this the other way: build a
platform that people love using, and developers will come.
On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Guillaume Lerouge
<guillaume(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
> Hi Vincent,
>
> if I may, this looks like a common fallacy: developers wanting to build
> tools for developers. Of course building a "XWiki for Software
Development"
> flavor will sound sexy to you, since
you're a developer yourself as
well as
> a XWiki committer. You would be your own
target audience. In other
words,
you want
to build something for yourself.
I think that not being a developer you completely miss the point :)
> However, please note that the market for such tools is already very, crowded.
Market? Who's talking about marketing/research studies, etc here? :)
> There's Trac / Bloodhound, there's the whole Atlassian suite,
> there is what Github is building as well as countless other solutions.
>
> One of XWiki's great strengths and differentiators is in its ability to > people manage structured and unstructured
content easily. I think we
should
> keep focusing our work on this instead of
trying to enter a crowded
space
with
little perceivable benefits
Who's "we"?
> . In your mind, is this the very best thing
> we could possibly work on in order to ensure XWiki's long-term success
sustainability?
Definitely. In any case, I'm not proposing some new roadmap or
the like. I'm
personally going to work on this. Actually I've started working on this as
soon as I joined this project several years ago and I'll continue since we
need this for ourselves anyway for xwiki.org and that's enough to justify
it since we're already spending the time on it. Now with this email I'm
trying to get other people interested in this topic (the more the merrier)
and to explain what I'm driving at.
Which is exactly why I'm answering. I don't think having additional
committers start working on this topic (instead of focusing on topics that
have a direct impact on a large majority of XWiki users, such as search for
instance) is a good idea.
Guillaume
FTR here's what we have so far that's finished
(and used on xwiki.org):
* FAQ application
* JIRA macro
* IRC Bot (although we still need to fix a few things as Caleb mentioned
but they are small)
In progress:
* MailArchive Application from Jeremie
* Release app (see dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleasePlans/WebHome).
We'll also need to integrate in it the creation of Release Notes as a
feature.
* Some Git/Github extension:
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/GitHub+Application.
I'd like to use it on the Hall Of Fame page on xwiki.org
* and probably some more….
Thanks
-Vincent
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Thanks
-Vincent
> My 2 cents,
>
> Guillaume
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 21, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Jeremie BOUSQUET <
jeremie.bousquet(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Vincent,
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/11/18 Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
>>>
>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> *** Latest emails (taken from mailman or other mailing list software,
>>>> possibly by subscribing the project to a mailing list so that it gets
>> the
>>>> emails)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ** A forum application, for example the Mail Archive Application
done by
>>>> Jeremie which would need to be
improved to add ability to post from
it
>>>>
>>>
>>> Couldn't / shouldn't it be the same thing ?
>>> I know the Mail Archive App is not finished at all, but one feature is
>>> possibility to generate code to include in pages in order to display
>>> filtered lists of emails or topics loaded by the app (filtering by
>>> mailing-list, with ordering, max nb, etc…).
>>
>> Yes, it's the same thing I agree.
>>
>>> If I may add some comment, it's a very nice idea. To me the biggest
trap
>> is
>>> integration with external sources. If it's not easily pluggable /
>>> configurable and choice is too restricted, it will attract only a
little
>>> subset of developers. In my office
for example, I would use it if I
could
>>> link to Rhodecode or Mercurial
(instead of github) and Redmine
(instead
>> of
>>> jira).
>>
>> Yep, we would need contributions for other issue trackers but once we
>> start having something it may attract devs to develop other
integrations.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent