Re: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] New location of the "Add" menu in the new Flamingo skin

2 Oct 2014

2014-10-02 1:59 GMT+02:00 Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt;lu>:

...
  On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Eduard Moraru
&lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

  On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Denis Gervalle
&lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt; wrote:

 > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
 > valicac(a)gmail.com
 > > wrote:
 >
 > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt; 
wrote:
   >
 > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
 > > valicac(a)gmail.com
 > > > wrote:
 > >
 > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru < 
enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt;
 > > > > wrote:
 > > > >
 > > > > > Hi,
 > > > > >
 > > > > > I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re
 more
  or
 > > > less
 > > > > > back where we started from, with the "improvement"
that the  "Add"
   > >
button
 > > > is
 > > > > now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :)
 > > > >
 > > > > Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the
only downside is  that
 > > > > awkward
 > > > > > feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However,
it's
 > never a
 > > > > > question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works
 best
  in
 > > > > > practice and what makes sense.
 > > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > > Hi,
 > > > >
 > > > > Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the 
original
  > > > > Flamingo proposal "which
we all agreed on". Apparently this is  the
    reason
 > > some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
 > >
 > > One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that 
when
 > we
 > > > proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these
 > > 'concerns'
 > > > should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of
 > discussions
 > > > should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
 > > >
 > >
 > > I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI,  as
   well
 > as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to  received
  > criticisms. This probably a consequence of
the fact that we are all  very
 > > busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like  the
 > > > current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the 
issue
  we
  > are
 > > actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the  add
 > > wiki
 > > > option.
 > > >
 > > >
 > > It was always in the initial proposal
 > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x
 > > and more explicitly in the Menus section
 > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus
 >
 >
 > Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to  add
  a
  wiki in those proposals ?

 The current thread/discussion is about the new location of the "Add" 
menu,
  not about the "Add Wiki" option (please
use the other thread for that).  It
  was not started because of the "Add
Wiki" option disagreement (that was
 just an example/excuse), but because this particular choice of location  was
  never discussed/argued to begin with, even if the
proposal received a
 positive feedback as a whole.

 Ok, let keep the button in place in this thread, and move it in the other
 one. How funny you are :)

 IMO, that just proves that we did not analyse the proposal well enough,  and
  maybe that some of us just preferred to assume
stuff instead of
 asking/discussing.

 I think, that I have clearly agree on that. Moreover, the proposal was fine
 for me (without the Add Wiki option), 

When the proposal was made, the "multi-wiki" feature was not bundled
properly in XE (I was working on it), so it could explains why it was not
in the proposal. When I did the implementation, I thought it was natural to
put the "Add wiki" item there, like I did for Colibri and like Workspaces
was doing.

This is why, at the end, the implementation is not 100% like the proposal.

...
  and this is you that initiate a
 discussion, after the fact, about the position of that button, isn't it ?

 I think we should focus more on making it right instead of finding  blame...

 Have I blame anyone in particular, I just blame all of us for not taking
 enough care to proposals, and I also found us some excuse. What is wrong
 with that ?

   > Thanks,
 > Eduard

 >  
 > >  
 > >  
 > >   > >
>   > > > > > Also all the
changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed
 before.
 > We
 > > > > used
 > > > > > 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used
'in the wild', was
 > > shorter,
 > > > > > etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some
 > users
 > > > find
 > > > > > it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping,
 > etc.
 > > > >  
 > > >   > > > > I agree, what I am
proposing actually only came from the current
 > > > discussion
 > > > > and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI
 > > without
 > > > > tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we
 > should
 > > > > look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the
 process
 > > is
 > > > > not academic.
 > > >  
 > > >  
 > > > >   > > > > > ----
 > > > >   > > > >
> I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make
 > this
 > > > > change
 > > > > > because we think that is the best place for it, not because we
 are
  > > > > influenced and think another
product might have the magic  solution
 > to
 > > > our
 > > > > > problems.
 > > > >   > > > >
> If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is
 > not
 > > > the
 > > > > > best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we
can
 'revert'
   the
 > > > change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only 
testing
 > > > could
 > > > > give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time
 to
   test
 > > > this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this
 change
  > > > because regular/advanced users had
a hard time to adapt to it. I  will
 > > > > repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but
 > maybe
 > > > > testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had 
more
 > > > skins
 > > > > > or changed them more often).
 > > > >  
 > > >   > > > > I do not think we are
complaining because we are advance, only
 > because
 > > it
 > > > > mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions.
Which is for the
 end
 > > > user,
 > > > > surely a source of confusion.
 > > >   > > > > Cathy,
do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a
 > > great
 > > > > job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what
 we
  > > do. I
 > > > know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully 
enough,
 > > but
 > > > > that's life :)
 > > >  
 > > >   > > > :)
 > >   > > > Thanks,
 > > > Caty
 > >  
 > >  
 > > >   >
> > >   > > > > >
Thanks,
 > > > > > Caty
 > > > >   > > >
>  
 > > > > >   > > > > > > Regarding the
addition of yet another "Add" button for
 > page-related
 > > > > > > entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such
a good
 > > idea. I
 > > > > > never
 > > > > > > did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK,
they
 are
  > not
 > > > > > recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) 
classes
 > > > > either,
 > > > > > > for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are
not
 > > friendly
 > > > > > with
 > > > > > > the browser's "Back" button. I think we
already have enough
 > > shortcuts
 > > > > in
 > > > > > > the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit'
dropdown.
 > > > > >   > > >
> > > Thanks,
 > > > > > > Eduard
 > > > > >   > > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
 > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote:
 > > > > >   > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <
 dgl(a)softec.lu&gt;
 > > > > wrote:
 > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume
"Louis-Marie"
 > > > Delhumeau
 > > > > <
 > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote:
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > > > >> Even better:
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > >   > >
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be
"Create".
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the
page
 > > called
 > > > > > "Add"
 > > > > > > > to
 > > > > > > > > add to the page:
 > > > > > > > >  * annotations using modal (you may select, than
use the
 > button
 > > > > > > normally)
 > > > > > > > >  * comment using a modal (without having to
scroll to the
 > > bottom)
 > > > > > > > >  * attachement using a modal (without having to
scroll to
 the
  > > > > bottom),
 > > > > > > >  * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing
to  load
  > all
 > > > > > > existing
 > > > > > > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without
 having
 > > to
 > > > > > manage
 > > > > > > > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > >   > > >
> > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently
 of
 > > the
 > > > > > > > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of
scrolling
 > to
 > > > the
 > > > > > > bottom
 > > > > > > > > is removed.
 > > > > > >   > >
> > > > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is
 fine.
  > > > > > > Viewing the
comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good
 > idea
 > > > > > > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after
 the
  > > > > > > content. I
don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or  maybe
 > I
 > > > > > > > misunderstood.
 > > > > > >   > >
> > > > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a
 > non-contextual
 > > > > > > > > create button, and a contextual add button. We
could then
 > allow
 > > > > > > > application
 > > > > > > > > to hook both of them depending on their needs.
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More
 > actions,
 > > > > > > > annotation
 > > > > > > > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to
display/hide
 > them
 > > > > > > > (including
 > > > > > > > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without
needing to
 > > > click a
 > > > > > > > > seperate checkbox.
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > > > > WDYT ?
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >>
 > > > > > > > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume
"Louis-Marie"
 > Delhumeau <
 > > > > > > > >> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt;gt;:
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > > > >> > So basically, you want:
 > > > > > > > >> 
 > > > > >   >
>  
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
 > > > > > > > >> 
 > > > > > > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00
vincent(a)massol.net <
 > > > > vincent(a)massol.net
 > > > > > >:
 > > > > > > > >> 
 > > > > > > > >> 
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume
Lerouge (
 > > > > > guillaume(a)xwiki.com
 > > > > > > > >> (mailto:
 > > > > > > > >> >> guillaume(a)xwiki.com)) wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > Hi,
 > > > > > > > >> >>   > > > > > > > >> >> > after
discussing with Vincent this morning we came
 to a
  > > > > > suggestion
 > > > > > > >> that
 > > > > > > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current
location of the  add
 > > > > button.
 > > > > > > The
 > > > > > > > >> idea
 > > > > > > > >> >> > would be to move the search bar
to the left of the
 > menu,
 > > > and
 > > > > > put
 > > > > > > > the
 > > > > > > > >> >> "Add"
 > > > > > > > >> >> > button in its place.
 > > > > > > > >> >>   > > > > > > > >> >> > Crude
image explanation here:
 > > > > > > > >> >>   > > > >
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
 > > > > > > > >> >>   > > > > > > > >> >> > This way
the "Add" button is back in a global menu,
 not
   in
 > a
 > > > menu
 > > > > > that
 > > > > > >> >> is
 > > > > > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very
visible. In
 > > addition
 > > > to
 > > > > > >> this,
 > > > > > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible
only to authorized  users,
 > > it's
 > > > > not
 > > > > > > too
 > > > > > > >> >> much
 > > > > > > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves
the issue of  having
 > > the
 > > > > > "Edit"
 > > > > > > > and
 > > > > > > > >> >> "More
 > > > > > > > >> >> > actions" buttons separated
from one another.
 > > > > > > > >> >>   > > > > > > > >> >> > WDYT?
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never
really liked the move
 > of
 > > > the
 > > > > > > Create
 > > > > > > > >> >> button in the page contextual menu
(doesn’t make sense
 to
 > > > me).
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for:
 > > > > > > > >> >> - confluence:
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > >   > >
> > >  
 > > > >  
 > > >  
 > >  
 >  

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74…
 > > > > > > > >> >> - jira:
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > >   > >
> > >  
 > > > >  
 > > >  
 > >  
 >  

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2…
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> Thanks
 > > > > > > > >> >> -Vincent
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > Guillaume
 > > > > > > > >> >> > ᐧ
 > > > > > > > >> >>   > > > > > > > >> >> > On Wed,
Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >>   > > > > > > > >> >> > > On
Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >> >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> Hi,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru
 > > > > (Valica)
 > > > > > <
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > valicac(a)gmail.com&gt;
wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume
 > Lerouge
 > > <
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >
me(a)guillaumelerouge.com&gt;
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > Hi,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina
 > Moraru
 > > > > > > (Valica)
 > > > > > > > <
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >
valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume
 > > > Lerouge
 > > > > <
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >
guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt;
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > Hi Marius,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius
 > > Dumitru
 > > > > > > Florea
 > > > > > > > <
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM,
 > Guillaume
 > > > > > Lerouge
 > > > > > > <
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt;
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> > Hi again,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at
12:39 PM,
 > > Guillaume
 > > > > > > > >> >> "Louis-Marie"
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau
<
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard
 > > Moraru <
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > enygma2002(a)gmail.com
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > Hi devs,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>   > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure
if we already have a
 > > > > discussion
 > > > > > > > >> started
 > > > > > > > >> >> on
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > this
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
topic,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> but
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> in
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I
 see
  > > > people
 > > > > > > start
 > > > > > > >> >> being
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > confused
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > and
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
>> > questions like this [1] start to  be
 > > > asked.
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>   > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new
location of the Add menu
 in
   > >
Flamingo
 > > > > is
 > > > > > >> >> > > problematic
 > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO
 > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > for
 > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > a
 > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
>> > various number of reasons:
 > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
>> > - It falsely gives the impression  that
 > > it
 > > > > adds
 > > > > > > >> >> > > page-related
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > entries
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
(i.e.
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
>> > related to the current page), due  to
 > > its
 > > > > > > current
 > > > > > > > >> >> location
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > (i.e.
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > in
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
the
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> page
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > content)
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new
 > > > Entry"
 > > > > > > button
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true
 > > for a
 > > > > lot
 > > > > > > of
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > livetables.
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > We
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > would
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> > need a generic "Create" button to be
 > > > > available
 > > > > > > > when we
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > instantiate
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > a
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> > livetable. This could be useful for
 the
  > > wiki
 > > > > > index
 > > > > > > >> >> page, for
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > the
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > user
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
> directory, for all the AWM  homepages...
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live
table
 > from
 > > > the
 > > > > > File
 > > > > > > > >> >> Manager
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > then
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > :)
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > >   > > > >
> > > >> >> > > > > >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> >   > > > > > >
> >> >> > > >   >
> > > > > > >> >> > >  
 > > > > > > > >> >> >   > > > > > > > >>
>>
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > >   > >
> > >  
 > > > >  
 > > >  
 > >  
 >  

http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicati…
  > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a
 > toolbar
 > > > > (with
 > > > > > > >> >> support for
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > custom
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
buttons) before the live table don't  you
 > > > think?
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > 
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is
already
 > > > covered
 > > > > by
 > > > > > > the
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > 'Actions'
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > column
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > in the
livetable. The only thing missing is
 > the
 > > > > > > 'Create'
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > >   > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is
the same use case. I can
 > see
 > > > at
 > > > > > > least
 > > > > > > > 3
 > > > > > > > >> >> reasons
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > why:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >   > > > >
> > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use
case, the only
 > > > difference
 > > > > > is
 > > > > > > > that
 > > > > > > > >> >> the
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Actions
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > column was used
as an intermediate solution
 > because
 > > > we
 > > > > > > didn't
 > > > > > > > >> had
 > > > > > > > >> >> bulk
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > actions in
livetable (the ability to make
 > multiple
 > > > > entity
 > > > > > > > >> >> selection
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) -
that's why we duplicate the
 entries
 > on
 > > > > each
 > > > > > > > row).
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > >   > > > > >
> > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact
that
 > the
 > > > > > > "Actions"
 > > > > > > > >> >> column
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > should be replaced by
a "Select" column with
 > > checkboxes
 > > > > in
 > > > > > > it,
 > > > > > > > and
 > > > > > > > >> >> also
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > that Marius'
horizontal livetable toolbar should
 be
 > > > > > expanded
 > > > > > > > to be
 > > > > > > > >> >> used
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > in
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by
all livetables :-)
 > > > > > > > >> >> > >  
 > > > > > > > >> >> >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > Not completely replaced because not all
 > > > operations/actions
 > > > > > can
 > > > > > > be
 > > > > > > > >> >> performed
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the
'edit' action and notice
 > that
 > > > it
 > > > > > is a
 > > > > > > > >> single
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > element action compared to
'delete'.
 > > > > > > > >> >> >   > > > > > > > >> >> > > A
different situation exists for the 'rename'
 action
  > > since
 > > > it
 > > > > > is
 > > > > > > >> more
 > > > > > > >> >> of a
 > > > > > > >> >> > > single element action, but can
be presented as a  bulk
 > > > > action
 > > > > > as
 > > > > > > > well
 > > > > > > > >> >> if you
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > provide some kind of
renaming template like '_'.
 > > > > > > > >> >> >   > > > > > > > >> >> > > In
other words, both the bulk operations toolbar
 and
 > > the
 > > > > > > actions
 > > > > > > > >> >> column
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > have their right place in
the livetable IMO and
 > having
 > > a
 > > > > > > checkbox
 > > > > > > > >> >> column
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM
livetable looks like the
 > > right
 > > > > way
 > > > > > > to
 > > > > > > > go.
 > > > > > > > >> >> >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
Thanks,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > Eduard
 > > > > > > > >> >> >  
 > > > > > > > >> >> > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > Guillaume
 > > > > > > > >> >> > >  
 > > > > > > > >> >> > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > Thanks,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Caty
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >   > > > >
> > > >> >> > > > >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new
 > > entry,
 > > > > > > whereas
 > > > > > > > the
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > "actions"
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > column is
for actions that are related to
 > > > individual
 > > > > > > > entries
 > > > > > > > >> >> that
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > already
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > exist
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The
"actions" column can be removed by the
 > > > > livetable
 > > > > > > > >> creator
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The
toolbar would also be useful to handle
 > > bulk
 > > > > > > actions
 > > > > > > > on
 > > > > > > > >> >> pages
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > such
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > as
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >
"delete selected entries" (as in the file
 > > manager)
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > Best,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > Guillaume
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > Thanks,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Caty
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >> >> > > > > >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > Yes and yes :-)
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > Guillaume
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >   >
> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
> Basically the button would let the
 user
  > > > create
 > > > > a
 > > > > > > new
 > > > > > > >> >> item of
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > the
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > same
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
type
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
> than the items displayed in the
 > livetable.
 > > > > Right
 > > > > > > now
 > > > > > > >> we
 > > > > > > >> >> do
 > > > > > > >> >> > > this
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > in
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > an
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
> ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great  to
 > > > have
 > > > > a
 > > > > > > > generic
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > solution.
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > It's
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> also
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> > related to the automatic page name
 > > > generation
 > > > > > > > module
 > > > > > > > >> >> (that we
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > don't
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
have
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> in
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> > the core yet, though there's an
 > > extensions
 > > > > > doing
 > > > > > > it
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> > <
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > 
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > >   > > >
> > > > >> >> > > >  
 > > > > > > > >> >> > >   > > > > > > > >>
>> >   > > > > > >
> >> >>
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > >   > >
> > >  
 > > > >  
 > > >  
 > >  
 >  

http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+…
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > > ).
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page
 > > from
 > > > a
 > > > > > far,
 > > > > > > > the
 > > > > > > > >> >> new
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > location
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
looks
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > completely randomly selected:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as
 > > > > > left-to-right
 > > > > > > > >> >> language
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > specific
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
brains
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> are
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > trained to follow)
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > -- it's not exactly at the top
 > either
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > -- it's not at the right
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > -- it's not next to the type of
 > > elements
 > > > > it
 > > > > > > > creates
 > > > > > > > >> >> (i.e.
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > next
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > to
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE)
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > -- it basically is almost in the
 > > middle
 > > > of
 > > > > > the
 > > > > > > > >> screen
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t
 come
 > > > right
 > > > > > now
 > > > > > > > to my
 > > > > > > > >> >> mind)
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>   > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> Personally, I like the fact that it
 is
   > >
located
 > > > > > near
 > > > > > >> >> the Edit
 > > > > > >> >> > > > > > button,
 > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > even
 > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
>> if it does not concern the current  page.
 > > > > Because
 > > > > > > it
 > > > > > > >> >> groups
 > > > > > > >> >> > > the
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > most
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
basic
 > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >
>> and useful actions that you need  when
 > > you
 > > > > want
 > > > > > > to
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > contribute:
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > EDIT,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
ADD.
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> To me, it makes sense.
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>   > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to
open a discussion on
 > this,
 > > > > since
 > > > > > > > it's
 > > > > > > > >> >> quite an
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
important
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> aspect
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny
 > green
 > > > > color
 > > > > > > > (which
 > > > > > > > >> >> I like
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > :)),
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > it`s
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> hard
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > to miss.
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>   > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me
who's resistant to
 > > change,
 > > > > or
 > > > > > do
 > > > > > > > >> >> others see
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > a
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >
problem
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> here
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > with this as well?
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >>   > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks,
 > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > Eduard
 > > > > > > > >> >>
_______________________________________________
 > > > > > > > >> >> devs mailing list
 > > > > > > > >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > > > > > > >> >>
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 > > > > > > > >> >>
 > > > > > > > >> 
 > > > > > > > >> 
 > > > > > > > >> 
 > > > > > > > >> > --
 > > > > > > > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau
(gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
 > > > > > > > >> > Research & Development Engineer at
XWiki SAS
 > > > > > > > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project
 > > > > > > > >> 
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > > > >> --
 > > > > > > > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
 > > > > > > > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki
SAS
 > > > > > > > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project
 > > > > > > > >>
_______________________________________________
 > > > > > > > >> devs mailing list
 > > > > > > > >> devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > > > > > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 > > > > > > > >>
 > > > > > > >   >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > >   > > >
> > > > > --
 > > > > > > > > Denis Gervalle
 > > > > > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO
 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
 > > > > > > > > devs mailing list
 > > > > > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
 > > > > > > > devs mailing list
 > > > > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 > > > > > >   > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
 > > > > > > devs mailing list
 > > > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 > > > > >   > > >
> > _______________________________________________
 > > > > > devs mailing list
 > > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 > > > >  
 > > >  
 > > >  
 > > >   >
> > > --
 > > > > Denis Gervalle
 > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO
 > > > > _______________________________________________
 > > > > devs mailing list
 > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 > > >   > > >
_______________________________________________
 > > > devs mailing list
 > > > devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 > >  
 >  
 >  
 >   > > --
 > > Denis Gervalle
 > > SOFTEC sa - CEO
 > > _______________________________________________
 > > devs mailing list
 > > devs(a)xwiki.org
 > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
 >   >
_______________________________________________
 > devs mailing list
 > devs(a)xwiki.org
 > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

 --
 Denis Gervalle
 SOFTEC sa - CEO
 _______________________________________________
 devs mailing list
 devs(a)xwiki.org
 http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

-- 
Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project

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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] New location of the "Add" menu in the new Flamingo skin