Re: [xwiki-devs] [VOTE] Integrate Workspaces by default in XWiki's default XAR

BTW, I also need to know if we only integrate "Workspaces" in XE, or if we integrate the whole XEM in XE (workspace + wiki-manager + app manager)? Do we want to keep XEM in our base products or do we want to have only one product (XE)?

2013/7/31 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau &lt;gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; > I am not again to see the "wiki" term as the whole system and to call > subwikis "workspaces" (if it is a better word), as long as we do not have > both concepts of subwikis and workspaces. > > Please send your votes ;) > > Louis-Marie > > > 2013/7/30 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau &lt;gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; > >> Hi everyone! >> >> I vote for B. >> >> I think we should completely *drop the notion of workspaces* and *only >> have the notion of "subwikis"*. During the creation wizard, we just add >> an option "use the global users only" that the user can enable or not (it >> should be enabled by default). So there is no type. >> >> Then we drop the WikiManager and the WorkspaceManager UIs, and we create >> *a new unified one to manage all the subwikis*. >> >> On the wiki index, we could show all the wikis where the user have the >> "view" right. All others wikis will be hidden for him (I think it is the >> use case of myxwiki.org). >> >> In this way, everything is more simple and both the use case of current >> wiki farm and workspaces are supported. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Louis-Marie >> >> >> 2013/7/30 Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; >> >>> >>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Caty, >>>> >>>> See below. >>>> >>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >>> valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu &lt;sergiu(a)xwiki.org&gt; >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi devs, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some days ago, >>> there's >>>>>> this time: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page - Caty + >>>>>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but he's >>> going to >>>>>> work full time on XWiki development and especially on UI aspects >>> from now >>>>>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you! :) >>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having >>> Workspaces >>>>>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to ensure >>> we all >>>>>> agree about this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The rationale is: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki (standalone >>>>>> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power of >>> XWiki. One >>>>>> of the very important differentiator of XWiki vs other >>> wikis/solutions is >>>>>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people downloading and >>> installing >>>>>> XWiki don't see it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the committers >>> mostly >>>>>> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of XEM/Wiki >>> Manager >>>>>> need polishing. Having them in default will ensure that we take them >>> into >>>>>> account and make them first class citizens when we develop. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements required to >>>>>> integrate this by default: >>>>>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here's my +1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki. >>> Without >>>>>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if the homepage >>>>>>> changes from a "welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are your >>>>>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes" something else in >>> the >>>>>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the >>> inside, >>>>>>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and the >>> single >>>>>>> wiki mode can still be used. >>>>>> >>>>>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The plan >>> is that >>>>>> the home page doesn't change. All that changes for a first time user >>>>>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries (Add >>> Workspace >>>>>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal). >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Proposals: >>>>> >>>>> * Changes to the Menu >>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >>>> >>>> * "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots which >>> the colibri skin, right? >>>> >>>> * "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following >>> since we don't have any UI for them: >>>> ** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global >>> portal/system level >>>> ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT that displays all docs >>> from all wikis >>>> ** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one. >>> Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's needed >>>> ** Note: Users index should list all global users >>>> * I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that represents >>> a single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to represent >>> the current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal" or "Farm" or …, >>> i.e. something that represents the whole system and have only system-wide >>> actions in it. >>> >>> After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have the new >>> "Home" menu entry to represent the main wiki. However all subwikis menu >>> entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index" which should >>> only be in "Home". >>> >>> In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of System >>> (farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it differently than in a wiki. >>> But we can take care of this at that time… ;) >>> >>> Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only 1 >>> concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of "Workspace" just >>> by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard: >>> "Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default). >>> >>> Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of creating >>> a new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation wizard >>> page (for example on the user having Admin rights on the main wiki). If an >>> Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to create a wiki he could edit >>> that page and change the check. >>> >>> WDYT? >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> * "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now + Users Index for listing all >>> local users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps of the >>> current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki >>>> >>>>> * Wiki/Workspace Creation >>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovem… >>>>> (please chose between Option A, B or C) >>>> >>>> Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept of >>> workspaces and come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much simpler >>> for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a configuration for a >>> wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Caty >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages and >>>>>>> disadvantages. On one hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki is a >>>>>>> collaborative platform, not just a wiki, so people that need >>>>>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that XWiki >>> isn't >>>>>>> another boring wiki. On the other hand, people that are just >>> looking for >>>>>>> a wiki that's nice to use and "not-ugly", might be put off by yet >>>>>>> another layer of complexity, and might drop XWiki from their list of >>>>>>> candidates. In other words, it alienates even more the kind of users >>>>>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly complex. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other? It >>> would be >>>>>>> in line with our vision of "enterprise collaboration", but I still >>> think >>>>>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any kind of users. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in the >>> first >>>>>>> step of the distribution manager what kind of usage do we want. In >>> the >>>>>>> meantime, we can still polish the pages that will go in the >>> "workspaces" >>>>>>> flavor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we have >>> really >>>>>>> good backwards compatibility and a flavor for a simple wiki for >>> textual >>>>>>> collaboration. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope the above allays your fears :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> -Vincent