3 Oct
2014
3 Oct
'14
9:48 a.m.
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 1:19 AM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
By not implicitly choose a parent, but proposing to choose one in addition
to the name. So this the create feature, no matter where I am, I want
something new.
What I propose is different Vincent, it allow quickly adding comments,
attachment and more if affinity, using a modal without scrolling (BTW, I
also find annoying these buttons gets out of sight when scrolling) and
without showing other object of the same nature (this is only an add
feature). In regards to proposing the same feature from many different
places, if we stay consistent in naming those function, the user will see
more benefit than confusion. Actually, the duplication of the extradoc and
the independent pages for the same feature is more confusing. The link you
mention are also not very easy, because they load a new page (BTW, on those
pages the link to go back to content is buried into the more option menu,
not very intuitive).
I’m a bit less convinced than you Denis that have 2 “Add” actions is a
good thing. Don’t you think it could be confusing for the user and I don’t
think it’s very clear when to use one or another. And even more so since
the page that appears when you click them is the same one in both cases…
On 2 Oct 2014 at 21:11:11, Denis Gervalle (dgl(a)softec.lu(mailto:
dgl(a)softec.lu)) wrote:
This is true, but not necessarily an issue here, it could be discussed.
Basically, it is about adding more content to that content. It does not
prevent the Page menu to contains the same option BTW. Giving user multiple
path to the same action is not necessarily bad, it allow each user to use
the tool with its own way of thinking.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Guillaume
Lerouge
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> actually one thing we could try is this:
>
> - *Keep the "Add" button where it is and use it for page-related
> actions:*
This is not fully true. It’s NOT about page-related actions at all. It’s
about page **content** actions.
Page-related actions are in the top level menus with “Delete page”,
“rename page”, “move page”. So it makes sense to have “Create child page”
in there too.
> - "Add child page”
How would it look differently than the one at the top since both have the
current page as the default parent?
> - "Add comment" (as suggested by
Denis)
> - "Add attachment" (as suggested by Denis)
The show links in the More actions menu also allow to add
comments/attachments and so does the extradoc tabs at the bottom of the
page. I’m wondering if it’s not confusing to have so many ways of doing the
same thing.
> - *Add a "Create" button in the
top bar, with 2/3 options:*
> - "Create page" (TBD)
> - "Create space"
> - "Create wiki"
> - In this case, after clicking "Create" the user would be presented
with
> a page / modal box listing existing
instances as well as available
> templates
>
> I think this would solve both my issues (having less-frequent actions
in
> the same location as a more-frequent one,
not being in the right place
on
the page)
and GuillaumeD's wife issue (the "Add" button is easy to find
where it is right now, why move it?).
WDYT?
Big +1 for me. I am convince we need "in context" and "out of
context"
operation to be separated. ATM I still prefer having a single Add/Create button
at the top by far
Actually this will not be the case, but if the feeling is that adding a
page from the content is confusing, we will removed it. This does remove
the need for a button to add stuff to content. As said earlier, we will
also need to allow applications to hook on these buttons. On the top bar
one to add more options for creating content out of context, and on the
content one to add new objects to the current page. So even if you get rid
of the content Add, my felling is that it will come back soon for
application purposes anyway.
Thanks
-Vincent
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
> Guillaume
> ᐧ
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:48 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 2 Oct 2014 at 13:31:56, Eduard Moraru (enygma2002(a)gmail.com
(mailto:
> > enygma2002(a)gmail.com)) wrote:
> >
> > > On that note:
> > > The funny/sad thing to realise is that we are basing all this
> discussion
> > on
> > > the fact that some users did not find the "Add" button *only the
first
> > > time* they tried to do something.
The realization is that this is
one
> of
> > > those things (idioms[1][2]) that you learn once and know how to
easily
> do
> > > the next 1000x times (like riding a bike).
> > >
> > > The real problem appears when you are in those "next 1000x time"
and
> you
> > > find it cumbersome to use (like riding a bike with no saddle, or
with
> the
> > > saddle on backwards :) ). So in both cases (top or middle of the
page)
> > once
> > > you find it once, you will find it again, however in the middle of
the
> > page
> > > it conflicts too often with the Edit button and other page related
> > actions,
> > > that it becomes cumbersome to use.
> >
> > Indeed that’s something I had in mind too. If you just ask to add a
page
> > and that’s all then you’re not doing a
full test. You’d need to ask
the
> > user to:
> > - add a page
> > - delete a page
> > - move a page
> > - create a space
> > - etc
> >
> > And then only you can draw some conclusion IMO.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Eduard
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > [1] http://thor.info.uaic.ro/~evalica/hci/L2/
> > > [2]
> >
https://www.englishforums.com/English/IdiomsVsMetaphors/cqwl/post.htm
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:47 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2 Oct 2014 at 11:06:00, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com(mailto:gdelhumeau@xwiki.com)) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have done the "test-on-my-wife" thing :)
> > > > >
> > > > > She finds it more intuitive to add a page from the current
page, so
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > current location, instead of the "black bar that gives the
> > impression of
> > > > > not beeing a part of that page" (that she did not manage to
find by
> > > > > herself).
> > > > >
> > > > > I then explained that the buttons inside the page only concern
the
> > > > actions
> > > > > that you can do on that page, meanwhile adding a new page
should be
> > put
> > > > in
> > > > > an other location. She did not like this logic :)
> > > >
> > > > So with this logic we should remove the top bar completely and
move
> all
> > > > actions inside the page, i.e. have only 1 menu inside the page.
> > Because if
> > > > she couldn’t find the Add button there she also wouldn’t be able
to
> > find
> > > > all wiki-related actions, space-related actions and more
importantly
> > > > **page-related** actions like
copy page, rename page or delete
page…
> > > >
> > > > Also would be fun to ask your wife to try using Confluence and
see if
> > she
> > > > fails to create a page there too.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > -Vincent
> > > >
> > > > > Users' logic and developer's logic are not the same. I
like the
> > current
> > > > > location too, except that we should propose "create
page"
before
> > "create
> > > > > wiki".
> > > > >
> > > > > I really would like to have some feedback of normal users, with
> the 2
> > > > > proposals. We, as developers, are not good at making things
that
> look
> > > > > simple for other people, so we should not take this decision
alone.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Guillaume Delhumeau
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs