Re: [xwiki-devs] [Discussion] New location of the "Add" menu in the new Flamingo skin

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru &lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt; > > > Hi, > > > > I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less > > back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button > is > > now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :) > > > > Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that > awkward > > feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a > > question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in > > practice and what makes sense. > > > > Hi, > > Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original > Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason > some of the things changed: listening to different opinions. > > One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we > proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' > should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions > should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase. > I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option. I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic. I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion. Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :) > > Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related > > entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I > never > > did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not > > recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, > > for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly > with > > the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in > > the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown. > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu> > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> > > > > > > >> Even better: > > > >> > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > > > > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > > > > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called > "Add" > > > to > > > > add to the page: > > > > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button > > normally) > > > > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) > > > > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the > bottom), > > > > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all > > > existing > > > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to > manage > > > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) > > > > > > > > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the > > > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the > > bottom > > > > is removed. > > > > > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. > > > Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea > > > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the > > > content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I > > > misunderstood. > > > > > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual > > > > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow > > > application > > > > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > > > > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, > > > annotation > > > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them > > > (including > > > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a > > > > seperate checkbox. > > > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > >> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt;gt;: > > > >> > > > >> > So basically, you want: > > > >> > > > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg > > > >> > > > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent(a)massol.net &lt;vincent(a)massol.net > >: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( > guillaume(a)xwiki.com > > > >> (mailto: > > > >> >> guillaume(a)xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a > > suggestion > > > >> that > > > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. > > The > > > >> idea > > > >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and > put > > > the > > > >> >> "Add" > > > >> >> > button in its place. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: > > > >> >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a > menu > > > that > > > >> >> is > > > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition > to > > > >> this, > > > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's > not > > > too > > > >> >> much > > > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the > "Edit" > > > and > > > >> >> "More > > > >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > WDYT? > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the > > Create > > > >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > > > >> >> > > > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: > > > >> >> - confluence: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74… > > > >> >> - jira: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2… > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Thanks > > > >> >> -Vincent > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Guillaume > > > >> >> > ᐧ > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > < > > > >> >> > > > valicac(a)gmail.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > >> >> > > > > me(a)guillaumelerouge.com&gt; > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru > > (Valica) > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > valicac(a)gmail.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > >> >> > > > > guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt; > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru > > Florea > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume > Lerouge > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt; > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > > > >> >> "Louis-Marie" > > > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > > >> >> > > > enygma2002(a)gmail.com > > > >> >> > > > > >: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion > > > >> started > > > >> >> on > > > >> >> > > this > > > >> >> > > > > > > topic, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > but > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people > > > start > > > >> >> being > > > >> >> > > > > confused > > > >> >> > > > > > > and > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo > > is > > > >> >> > > problematic > > > >> >> > > > > IMO > > > >> >> > > > > > > for > > > >> >> > > > > > > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it > adds > > > >> >> > > page-related > > > >> >> > > > > > > entries > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its > > current > > > >> >> location > > > >> >> > > > > (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" > > button > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot > > of > > > >> >> > > livetables. > > > >> >> > > > We > > > >> >> > > > > > > would > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available > > > when we > > > >> >> > > > > instantiate > > > >> >> > > > > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki > > index > > > >> >> page, for > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > user > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the > File > > > >> >> Manager > > > >> >> > > then > > > >> >> > > > :) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicati… > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar > (with > > > >> >> support for > > > >> >> > > > > > custom > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by > > the > > > >> >> > > 'Actions' > > > >> >> > > > > > column > > > >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the > > 'Create' > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at > > least > > > 3 > > > >> >> reasons > > > >> >> > > > why: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference > is > > > that > > > >> >> the > > > >> >> > > > Actions > > > >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we > > didn't > > > >> had > > > >> >> bulk > > > >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > > > >> >> selection > > > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each > > > row). > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the > > "Actions" > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in > > it, > > > and > > > >> >> also > > > >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be > expanded > > > to be > > > >> >> used > > > >> >> > > in > > > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions > can > > be > > > >> >> performed > > > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it > is a > > > >> single > > > >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it > > is > > > >> more > > > >> >> of a > > > >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action > as > > > well > > > >> >> if you > > > >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the > > actions > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a > > checkbox > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way > > to > > > go. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > Eduard > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > Caty > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, > > whereas > > > the > > > >> >> > > > "actions" > > > >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual > > > entries > > > >> >> that > > > >> >> > > > already > > > >> >> > > > > > exist > > > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable > > > >> creator > > > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk > > actions > > > on > > > >> >> pages > > > >> >> > > > such > > > >> >> > > > > as > > > >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > > > Caty > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create > a > > > new > > > >> >> item of > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > same > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > type > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. > Right > > > now > > > >> we > > > >> >> do > > > >> >> > > this > > > >> >> > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > an > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a > > > generic > > > >> >> > > > solution. > > > >> >> > > > > > It's > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > also > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation > > > module > > > >> >> (that we > > > >> >> > > > > don't > > > >> >> > > > > > > > have > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions > doing > > it > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+… > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a > far, > > > the > > > >> >> new > > > >> >> > > > > location > > > >> >> > > > > > > > looks > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as > left-to-right > > > >> >> language > > > >> >> > > > > specific > > > >> >> > > > > > > > brains > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it > > > creates > > > >> >> (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > next > > > >> >> > > > > > to > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of > the > > > >> screen > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right > now > > > to my > > > >> >> mind) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located > > > near > > > >> >> the Edit > > > >> >> > > > > > button, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > even > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. > Because > > > it > > > >> >> groups > > > >> >> > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > most > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > basic > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want > > to > > > >> >> > > contribute: > > > >> >> > > > > > EDIT, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since > > > it's > > > >> >> quite an > > > >> >> > > > > > > important > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color > > > (which > > > >> >> I like > > > >> >> > > > > :)), > > > >> >> > > > > > > it`s > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > hard > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or > do > > > >> >> others see > > > >> >> > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > problem > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > here > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >> devs mailing list > > > >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com) > > > >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com) > > > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> devs mailing list > > > >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO