12 Apr
2016
12 Apr
'16
4:29 p.m.
On 12 Apr 2016, at 16:18, Marius Dumitru Florea
<mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com>
wrote:
Note that the majority of users will edit a link and click ok even if they don’t change
anything. An improvement would be to check for a difference in the generated link.
What I was commenting on though was that if the user has chosen an absolute format or a
relative format and he changes some link-related data (label, target location, etc),
ideally the WYSIWYG would output a reference using the same format (absolute or
relative).
Thanks
-Vincent
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
>> Hi Marius,
> >>> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:56,
Marius Dumitru Florea <
>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>> >>> Hi devs,
>> >>> We need to decide
what is the expected link reference serialization
>>> produced by the WYSIWYG editor when you create a link to a wiki page.
I
ambiguous.,
but overall it’s probably a good thing.
> On 12 Apr 2016, at 15:43, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
>>> think we have to choose between 3
options:
>> >>> (1) Output untyped
(ambiguous) link references whenever possible
>>> (2) Always output unambiguous (typed) link references (both 'doc:'
and
>>> 'space:')
>>> (3) Always output 'doc:' link references (no 'space:'
references)
>> >>> Let's see the
details:
>> >>> = OPTION 1: Output
untyped link references whenever possible =
>> >>> == <7.2 ==
>> >>> Link from A.B
>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[WebHome]]
>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[C]]
> >> I don’t understand why you’re
using relative links in your 2 examples
>> above. Option (1) says untyped, it doesn’t say convert links into
relative
>> links.
> >> So for me that would be:
> >> * to A.WebHome (space home
page) => [[A.WebHome]]
>> * to A.C (same space) => [[A.C]]
> >>> * to X.Y (different
space) => [[X.Y]]
>>> * to X.WebHome => [[X.WebHome]]
>> >>> == 7.2+ ==
>> >>> Link from
A.B.WebHome
>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
> >> Note 1: We could also imagine
introducing a syntax for absolute links
such
>> as [[:A]]
>> Note 2: We could also imagine introducing a syntax for parent links
such
>> as [[..A]]
> >>> * to A.B.C or
A.B.C.WebHome or A.C or A.C.WebHome (child or sibling)
=>
>>> [[C]] (very ambiguous)
> >> This is using a relative
notation. But (1) is not about transforming
links
>> into relative links.
> >> so for me this is:
>> * => [[A.B.C]]
>> * => [[A.C]]
> >> I’m stopping reading here
since first we need to clarify if (1) is
about
>> a) untyped or b) using relative
references.
> >> IMO it should be about a) and
doesn’t have to do b).
> > >> Maybe I
misunderstood something?
> > Generating relative references is a must for me (whenever
possible), no
> matter what output format we choose. I'm surprised there's any doubt
about
> this. The current WYSIWYG editor is
generating relative references and
the
CKEditor
should continue to do this. Relative references have many
advantages (eases the refactoring, allows you to export a hierarchy and
import it somewhere else, etc.).
Didn’t realize the WYSIWYG was already doing this!
Indeed there are pros. The cons is that it can make the linking more Also note that ideally we’d need to not convert
existing links when
going through the WYSIWYG editor. That’s true independently of
this
discussion though.
This is handled by XML comments containing the
source reference so the
only thing the WYSIWYG need to do is to not touch those comments
(unless the user explicitly modify the target of course).
It's already the case. The link reference is preserved as is unless you
edit the link and apply the changes (i.e. you close the link dialog with
the OK button). Thanks for the reply, I understand now.
>>
>>> So option (1) is about untyped relative links, option (2) is about typed
>>> relative links and option (3) is about doc: relative links. In other
> words:
>>> (1) don't generate "doc:" and "space:"
>>> (2) generate both "doc:" and "space:"
>>> (3) generate only "doc:" (don't hide WebHome)
>>
>> I’ve now read again the first mail and I’m in favor of (2).
>>
>> The main reason for me is that we want to hide WebHome and with Nested
> Pages, all links would have WebHome in them with option (3).
>>
>> Option (3) is really the worst for users: they get to see both “doc:”
> and “WebHome” :)
>>
>> Also note that even option (2) is not perfect because of the “doc:” and
> “space:” prefixes which are also hard to understand for users.
>>
>> I also know users who use both WYSIWYG and wiki editors (and who think
> that WebHome is confusing - We’re used to it, but it’s really confusing if
> you’re just starting to use XWiki - you don’t even understand what it means
> at all).
>>
>> To summarize: +1 for (2).
>>
>> Note: My choice for (2) is based purely on a usability POV. It could be
> that implementing option (2) is so much complex that it’s not worth it and
> that we’d want to wait till we change the underlying model before changing
> the linking syntax.
>>
>> Last note: Maybe we need to invent some completely new syntax for
> linking since currently it has become very complex. I remember of any mail
> where I proposed some new syntax for links using a different syntax such as
> [[[…]]]. It could be interesting to spec a new simpler syntax such as:
>> * Use “/“ instead of “.” (we already know that users would prefer “/“
> since they’re more used to that symbol)
>> * Leading “/“ means absolute. Example: [[[/A/B]]]
>> * Use “..” for parent. Example: [[[..A/B]]]
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marius
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> * to A.B.C.D or A.B.C.D.WebHome (nested page two levels or more
> below) =>
>>>>> [[.C.D]] (ambiguous)
>>>>> * to A.C.D or A.C.D.WebHome (nested page under sibling) =>
[[A.C.D]]
>>>>> (ambiguous)
>>>>> * to X.Y.Z or X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[X.Y.Z]] (ambiguous)
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>>> * to A.C or A.C.WebHome (sibling) => [[C]] (ambiguous)
>>>>> * to A.C.D or A.C.D.WebHome (nested page under sibling) =>
[[A.C.D]]
>>>>> (ambiguous)
>>>>> * to X.Y or X.Y.WebHome => [[X.Y]] (ambiguous)
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal) or A.B.C.WebHome
>>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[A.B]] (ambiguous)
>>>>>
>>>>> PROS:
>>>>> * shorter link references
>>>>> * hides WebHome from source syntax on 7.2+
>>>>>
>>>>> CONS:
>>>>> * ambiguous link references
>>>>> * complex code
>>>>> * different output for <7.2 and 7.2+ in case of top level space
>>>> [[WebHome]]
>>>>> or [[A.WebHome]] vs. [[space:A]] (we need to check if support for
> nested
>>>>> spaces is available)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> = OPTION 2: Always output unambiguous link references =
>>>>>
>>>>> == <7.2 ==
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B
>>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>> * to X.Y (different space) => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>>> * to X.WebHome => [[doc:X.WebHome]]
>>>>>
>>>>> == 7.2+ ==
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B.WebHome
>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>>> * to A.B.C (terminal child) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.B.C.WebHome (non-terminal child) => [[space:A.B.C]]
(absolute)
>>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C]]
>>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[space:A.C]]
>>>>> * to A.B.C.D (terminal descendant) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.B.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant) =>
[[space:A.B.C.D]]
>>>>> (absolute)
>>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:A.C.D]]
>>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>> [[space:A.C.D]]
>>>>> * to X.Y.Z => [[doc:X.Y.Z]]
>>>>> * to X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[space:X.Y.Z]]
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[space:A.C]]
(absolute)
>>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:.C.D]]
(relative)
>>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>> [[space:A.C.D]]
>>>>> * to X.Y => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>>> * to X.Y.WebHome => [[space:X.Y]]
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal) or A.B.C.WebHome
>>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A.B]] (absolute)
>>>>>
>>>>> PROS:
>>>>> * unambiguous link references ("what you link is what you
get")
>>>>> * slightly less complex code (but still complex)
>>>>> * hides WebHome from source syntax on 7.2+
>>>>>
>>>>> CONS:
>>>>> * longer link references (because of "doc:" and
"space:" prefixes)
>>>>> * cannot specify relative 'space:' references
>>>>> * different output for <7.2 and 7.2+ in case of [[doc:WebHome]]
vs.
>>>>> [[space:A]]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> = OPTION 3: Always output 'doc:' references =
>>>>>
>>>>> == <7.2 ==
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B
>>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>> * to X.Y (different space) => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>>> * to X.WebHome => [[doc:X.WebHome]]
>>>>>
>>>>> == 7.2+ ==
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B.WebHome
>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:A.WebHome]]
>>>>> * to A.B.C (terminal child) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.B.C.WebHome (non-terminal child) => [[doc:.C.WebHome]]
> (relative)
>>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C]]
>>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C.WebHome]]
>>>>> * to A.B.C.D (terminal descendant) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.B.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant) =>
[[doc:.C.D.WebHome]]
>>>>> (relative)
>>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:A.C.D]]
>>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>>> [[doc:A.C.D.WebHome]]
>>>>> * to X.Y.Z => [[doc:X.Y.Z]]
>>>>> * to X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[doc:X.Y.Z.WebHome]]
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[doc:.C.WebHome]]
> (relative)
>>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:.C.D]]
(relative)
>>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>>> [[doc:.C.D.WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>> * to X.Y => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>>> * to X.Y.WebHome => [[doc:X.Y.WebHome]]
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal)
>>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>>
>>>>> Link from A.B.C.WebHome
>>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:A.B.WebHome]] (absolute)
>>>>>
>>>>> PROS:
>>>>> * unambiguous link references ("what you link is what you
get")
>>>>> * relative references for nested non-terminal descendants
>>>>> * same output for <7.2 and 7.2+
>>>>> * simpler code (easier to maintain)
>>>>>
>>>>> CONS:
>>>>> * doesn't hide WebHome from source syntax
>>>>> * longer link references (because of "doc:" prefix and
"WebHome"
> suffix)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't like ambiguous links so I'm against option (1). I
don't think
> the
>>>>> WYSIWYG editor users care too much about the wiki syntax (option 2),
> as I
>>>>> commented on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13083, so I'm +1
for
>>>> option
>>>>> (3).
>>>>>
>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Marius