Hi, to the bottom of the document to save it, and there is a long time it is affecting us. text area for the version summary way too small for the purpose. It should IMO stay on a separate line in order to be large enough. Since this not always useful, it might, however, be collapsed somehow in certain circumstances. bottom, wouldn’t be simpler and as efficient, even if the top feature is limited (just save / save&view). It might also work with your fixed bottom UI, that might also be more limited than what you can do by scrolling. opinions on this important feature. For me, the issue with the always-on-bar is that it takes up space and thus reduces the available vertical space for editing content. Thus I find it interesting to have it on only one line and also to only have it at the bottom and not repeat it at the top. I’d really not like to see it at the top. Thanks -Vincent valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote: need IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png IdeaVisibleSave/after.png

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Guillaume Delhumeau < guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: Hi Guillaume, They are not separate proposals, just one, but it looks a bit different when it's fixed at bottom, versus in its position. Just wanted to make that clear. scroll is the Beginner users sometimes don't know what that is for. Somebody asked me to remove it all together :) you think it's too small :P Currently it is on a separate line. I tried to integrate everything in a single line, that will be always visible, although I agree we have many functionalities (autosave, summary, minor, preview, etc.) and they look a bit crowded. the is Usually save is a the bottom. Still the same view will be also in Full Screen and the top area is already taken by the CkEditor controls, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/fullScreen.png Thanks, Caty the they

Another proposal by Olivier http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Idea%3A% 20Contextual%20Actions%20Toolbar

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Eduard Moraru &lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: it found a look a to feature Thus I at

On 24 Apr 2017, at 16:07, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Another proposal by Olivier http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Idea%3A%20Contextual%20Acti…

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Eduard Moraru &lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Generally, I like the proposal. A sticky save button is clearly the > solution. > > However, the mobile view is a mess: > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.png > > Side note: I think it`s a good time to address the "Save & Continue" + > "Save & View" duality that I found deeply confusing when I first started > with XWiki. If we take it down to only 2 buttons (Save + Cancel), it will > improve the mobile view as well. > > My last note about the proposal is related to the sticky state visible in > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png > ... I`m not sure on the technical aspects, but I would still prefer it to > "stick" only to the content area and not overflow to the entire width of > the screen and go into panels or whatever the skin might have around the > content area (in edit mode). > > Thanks, > Eduard > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Guillaume Delhumeau < >> guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> +1 for the solution 3: >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >>> IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png >> >> >> Hi Guillaume, >> >> They are not separate proposals, just one, but it looks a bit different >> when it's fixed at bottom, versus in its position. Just wanted to make > that >> clear. >> >> >>> >>> >>> 2017-04-11 21:58 GMT+02:00 Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt;et>: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>> On 11 Apr 2017, at 21:25, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Caty, >>>>> Very happy to see progress in this area, this is a real pain to >> scroll >>>> to the bottom of the document to save it, and there is a long time it >> is >>>> affecting us. >>>>> However, I am not really happy with your current proposal. I found >> the >>>> text area for the version summary way too small for the purpose. >>> >> >> Beginner users sometimes don't know what that is for. Somebody asked me > to >> remove it all together :) you think it's too small :P >> >> >>> It should >>>> IMO stay on a separate line in order to be large enough. Since this > not >>>> always useful, it might, however, be collapsed somehow in certain >>>> circumstances. >>> >> >> Currently it is on a separate line. I tried to integrate everything in a >> single line, that will be always visible, although I agree we have many >> functionalities (autosave, summary, minor, preview, etc.) and they look a >> bit crowded. >> >> >>>>> I also wonder if just having some buttons on the top in addition to >> the >>>> bottom, wouldn’t be simpler and as efficient, even if the top feature >> is >>>> limited (just save / save&view). >>> >> >> Usually save is a the bottom. Still the same view will be also in Full >> Screen and the top area is already taken by the CkEditor controls, see >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> IdeaVisibleSave/fullScreen.png >> >> Thanks, >> Caty >> >> >>> It might also work with your fixed bottom >>>> UI, that might also be more limited than what you can do by > scrolling. >>>>> I hope these are useful comments. I am also curious to see other >>>> opinions on this important feature. >>>> >>>> For me, the issue with the always-on-bar is that it takes up space > and >>>> thus reduces the available vertical space for editing content. Thus I >>> find >>>> it interesting to have it on only one line and also to only have it > at >>> the >>>> bottom and not repeat it at the top. I’d really not like to see it at >> the >>>> top. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Denis Gervalle >>>>> SOFTEC sa - CEO >>>>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 17:59, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >>>> valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>> Hi devs, >>>>> >>>>> Some users have complained that when editing they don't know that >> they >>>> need >>>>> to scroll in order to see the Save buttons. >>>>> >>>>> This is a proposal that tackles: >>>>> - Displaying the save buttons in a bottom area, when they are out > of >>> the >>>>> viewport, see >>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >>>> IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png >>>>> - Reorganizing the bottom zone in order to compact all the save >>> functions >>>>> into a single bar >>>>> - When the user scrolls, the buttons go into their position, see >>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >>>> IdeaVisibleSave/after.png >>>>> >>>>> For the whole proposal and more screenshots, see >>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave >>>>> >>>>> WDYT? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Caty >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com) >>> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS >>> Committer on the XWiki.org project >>> >> >

On 25 Apr 2017, at 11:34, oseres &lt;oseres(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: @Vincent : as a PO, you should stay positive in commenting enhancement proposals of others, avoid subjective statement as : "I don't like" or denigrant "WTF" expression.

@Vincent @Edouard : I think your opinions on this Action Toolbar proposition are too dogmatic : if a change makes the software easier to learn I think it's acceptable so break some rules. However, I accept that the burdon of proof is on me to show that this is indeed likely to improve user experience and learnability.

Here's why I think this change will improve learnability and UX : * I think users need to associate that Edit and Save form the major workflow of page modifications. Putting the 2 buttons next to each other reinforce the understanding of the workflow by newcomers

* There is no strong reason not to have Save available at the bottom of the document, I just believe that it needs to also be available at the top too so users see it and not scroll

* Other wikis (including Mediawiki in their Visual Mode and SharePoint wiki ) put the Save Button next to the Edit One (see http://d.pr/i/Qvw8 and http://d.pr/i/rpoJ), they probably have put some effort into usability and so we should consider taking advantage of their effort. <http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/file/n7603611/Screen_Shot_2017-04-25_at_11.png> Further more, in other contexts (editors, e-commerce websites), major "final action" ("Publish", "Add to the Cart" are most of the time in the top of the page, so users don't miss it)

* It is more efficient to do one click rather than two (and other software such as Thunderbird accepts to mix buttons like "reply" which start an action but do not complete it with buttons such as "delete message" which do complete an action; GMail also mixes 1-step and 2-steps actions buttons)

* Switching between editor types seems like an advanced feature, it is not exposed to simple users which should be most users

@Vincent : I took your Version summary concern into consideration and made a new proposal here : http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/Idea%3A%20Contextual%20… (also avoiding a popup)

View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Proposal-UX-Visible-Save-buttons-tp760344… Sent from the XWiki- Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

On 11 Apr 2017, at 21:25, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt; wrote: Hi Caty, Very happy to see progress in this area, this is a real pain to scroll to the bottom of the document to save it, and there is a long time it is affecting us.

However, I am not really happy with your current proposal. I found the text area for the version summary way too small for the purpose. It should IMO stay on a separate line in order to be large enough. Since this not always useful, it might, however, be collapsed somehow in certain circumstances. I also wonder if just having some buttons on the top in addition to the bottom, wouldn’t be simpler and as efficient, even if the top feature is limited (just save / save&view). It might also work with your fixed bottom UI, that might also be more limited than what you can do by scrolling. I hope these are useful comments. I am also curious to see other opinions on this important feature. -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 17:59, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Hi devs, Some users have complained that when editing they don't know that they need to scroll in order to see the Save buttons. This is a proposal that tackles: - Displaying the save buttons in a bottom area, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/bottomB… - Reorganizing the bottom zone in order to compact all the save functions into a single bar - When the user scrolls, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/after.p… For the whole proposal and more screenshots, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave WDYT? Thanks, Caty

On 25 Apr 2017, at 00:46, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt; wrote: Hi Vincent, On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 21:07, Vincent Massol &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; wrote: Hi Denis/All, Note that shouldn’t be a problem in most cases and you shouldn’t have to scroll anywhere since the content is inside a textarea with scrollbars and the preview/save/cancel buttons are outside of it and only reasonable resolution they are always visible. Just tested on a small 1024x76 resolution and they’re very visible and there’s still vertical room: https://www.evernote.com/l/AHfKSY4sB3lO_6TarSsjkw889qlffOGX4P8 And in full screen it’s the same. So I’m curious to understand when it’s a problem for you. There’s probably something I’m missing. Well, I don’t really know how you made your screenshot and how you measured your resolution. Your evernote picture looks scrambled and large. In the most popular landscape desktop resolution ( 1366x768, see http://gs.statcounter.com/screen-resolution-stats/desktop/worldwide), with a menu, here is what I got: http://d.pr/i/R1i3 And, this is even worse than that, since we should consider that the viewport is much lower than the screen size, in particular the height of it. Any resolution with a viewport less than 1080px in height doesn’t really make it for me. Which means that unless you are on something retina or at least 15”, you had to scroll. According to the above charts, we get covered for less than 1 internet users over 4 on desktop. Does my mileage vary that much compared to others ? I should admit that I am really puzzled by your remarks, since this has always been a source of pain for me. While I have a large screen, I am often using the debugger in my browser stuck to the bottom, and this put me back in the common use case above (and like this idea of being close to it when testing my work). Maybe others can shed some lights on this ?

-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO Thanks -Vincent > However, I am not really happy with your current proposal. I found the text area for the version summary way too small for the purpose. It should IMO stay on a separate line in order to be large enough. Since this not always useful, it might, however, be collapsed somehow in certain circumstances. > I also wonder if just having some buttons on the top in addition to the bottom, wouldn’t be simpler and as efficient, even if the top feature is limited (just save / save&view). It might also work with your fixed bottom UI, that might also be more limited than what you can do by scrolling. > I hope these are useful comments. I am also curious to see other opinions on this important feature. > -- > Denis Gervalle > SOFTEC sa - CEO > On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 17:59, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Hi devs, > > Some users have complained that when editing they don't know that they need > to scroll in order to see the Save buttons. > > This is a proposal that tackles: > - Displaying the save buttons in a bottom area, when they are out of the > viewport, see > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/bottomB… > - Reorganizing the bottom zone in order to compact all the save functions > into a single bar > - When the user scrolls, the buttons go into their position, see > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/after.p… > > For the whole proposal and more screenshots, see > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave > > WDYT? > > Thanks, > Caty