15 Oct
2016
15 Oct
'16
11:10 a.m.
Hi devs,
I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been reported by Nicolas
that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the Message Stream feature and moreover
they even ask him to remove it.
One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS (either the global
one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with the page updates.
Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.
I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and less
cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already have a Message
Stream Admin UI config.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
15 Oct
15 Oct
11:26 a.m.
On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been reported by Nicolas
that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the Message Stream feature and moreover
they even ask him to remove it.
One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS (either the global
one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with the page updates.
FTR this already logged as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9104
Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to
make it really useful.
FTR here’s a list of open issues for the Message Stream feature:
http://jira.xwiki.org/issues/?jql=component%20%3D%20%22Message%20Stream%22%…
Thanks
-Vincent
I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to
make XWiki simpler and less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already have a Message
Stream Admin UI config.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
16 Oct
16 Oct
2:16 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE
+1
The feature needs reworking and it`s doing more harm than good at the
current state.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been
reported by
Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the
Message Stream feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.
One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS
(either the
global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with
the page updates.
FTR this already logged as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9104
Basically we’d need to polish this feature better
to make it really
useful.
FTR here’s a list of open issues for the Message Stream feature:
http://jira.xwiki.org/issues/?jql=component%20%3D%20%
22Message%20Stream%22%20AND%20project%20%3D%20XWIKI%20AND%
20resolution%20%3D%20Unresolved%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC
Thanks
-Vincent
I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order
to make XWiki simpler
and less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we
already have a
Message Stream Admin UI config.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
8:20 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE
+1
On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:16 AM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com> wrote:
+1
The feature needs reworking and it`s doing more harm than good at the
current state.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
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--
Thomas Mortagne
On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been
reported by
Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the
Message Stream feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.
One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS
(either the
global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with
the page updates.
FTR this already logged as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9104
Basically we’d need to polish this feature better
to make it really
useful.
FTR here’s a list of open issues for the Message Stream feature:
http://jira.xwiki.org/issues/?jql=component%20%3D%20%
22Message%20Stream%22%20AND%20project%20%3D%20XWIKI%20AND%
20resolution%20%3D%20Unresolved%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC
Thanks
-Vincent
I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order
to make XWiki simpler
and less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we
already have a
Message Stream Admin UI config.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
17 Oct
17 Oct
3:56 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE
+1.
On 10/15/2016 05:10 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi devs,
I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been reported by Nicolas
that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the Message Stream feature and moreover
they even ask him to remove it.
One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS (either the global
one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with the page updates.
Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.
I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and less
cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already have a Message
Stream Admin UI config.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
8:42 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE
+1
10:22 a.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE
+1
2016-10-17 8:42 GMT+02:00 Alexandru Cotiuga <alexandru.cotiuga(a)xwiki.com>om>:
+1
_______________________________________________
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--
Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
12:45 p.m.
New subject: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE
So it's problematic that the feature get oldish and it creates more
confusion than being useful. So I agree to disable it. The problem is that
disabling it means it will not be used anymore at all, so a better solution
would be to remove it from XE/Platform instead.
I understand that this means more work since it's integrated in AS and
Profile, but I want to raise a point for this use case.
One of the problems I see with XWiki Applications is their ability to
interconnect between them. For example, I would like to install the Meeting
app and that if I also install the Calendar app, the meetings would also be
displayed in the Calendar, and not be independent pages.
The same is also for the Message Stream app. This app was integrated to
display it's messages in Activity Stream, to be able to follow someone from
the User Profile and to display just an user messages in the Profile. We
had integration into several applications and although maybe the feature
was not complete or not very useful for our users, it affected multiple
zones of the UI.
Since we don't have any easy 'insertion/app collaborations' mechanisms is
hard for us to remove the Message Stream from XE, and is hard for us to
make multiple apps interconnect.
I'm not sure these kind of "magic integration mechanisms" (it goes beyond
UIXP since you need also API) exists or if it means just plain old good
coding :) between apps, but it's just a point I wanted to make.
Thanks,
Caty
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Guillaume Delhumeau <
guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
+1
2016-10-17 8:42 GMT+02:00 Alexandru Cotiuga <alexandru.cotiuga(a)xwiki.com>om>:
+1
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
--
Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
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2:03 p.m.
Hi Caty,
On 17 Oct 2016, at 12:45, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<valicac(a)gmail.com> wrote:
So it's problematic that the feature get oldish and it creates more
confusion than being useful. So I agree to disable it. The problem is that
disabling it means it will not be used anymore at all, so a better solution
would be to remove it from XE/Platform instead.
I don’t understand the logic and how removing it would make it easier for users to use it.
I understand that this means more work since it's
integrated in AS and
Profile,
Yep. Step 1 is disable, step 2 might be to remove it but we need to do step 1 first,
especially since there are several issues to fix first (see the jira).
but I want to raise a point for this use case.
One of the problems I see with XWiki Applications is their ability to
interconnect between them. For example, I would like to install the Meeting
app and that if I also install the Calendar app, the meetings would also be
displayed in the Calendar, and not be independent pages.
The same is also for the Message Stream app. This app was integrated to
display it's messages in Activity Stream, to be able to follow someone from
the User Profile and to display just an user messages in the Profile. We
had integration into several applications and although maybe the feature
was not complete or not very useful for our users, it affected multiple
zones of the UI.
Since we don't have any easy 'insertion/app collaborations' mechanisms is
hard for us to remove the Message Stream from XE, and is hard for us to
make multiple apps interconnect.
This is not correct. We do have several "'insertion/app collaborations’
mechanisms”. It’s just that the app integration wasn’t coded so nicely and some of these
mechanisms didn’t exist back then.
FTR we have 3 mechanisms:
* If you depend on a given app: we use an “#if”. Either on a given wiki page or better, on
a given extension installed (using the $services.extension script service when you’re in
velocity). For example the Meeting app can have an optional dependency on the Calendar app
and use such an if.
* If you want to define a place where other apps can integrate content. This can be
achieved using an UIXP. However we said that for apps we should favor custom XClass
instead. So the app should define such an XClass and then have other apps depend on it. In
the case of the User Profile, this is achieved by allowing apps to add new tabs with
UserProfileSectionClass). The bug here was to mix the Message sending feature in the tab
for the Profile. It should have had its own tab probably. Now even for a given tab, it’s
still possible for that tab to offer custom extension point by offering some other
XClass.
* For apps that need to extend skin/templates we offer the UIXP mechanism.
I'm not sure these kind of "magic integration
mechanisms" (it goes beyond
UIXP since you need also API) exists or if it means just plain old good
coding :) between apps, but it's just a point I wanted to make.
I don’t understand the problem. Do the 3 mechanism listed above answer your question?
What’s the problem with the API? Each extension can provide any number of API they want
already.
Thanks
-Vincent
Thanks,
Caty
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Guillaume Delhumeau <
guillaume.delhumeau(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> 2016-10-17 8:42 GMT+02:00 Alexandru Cotiuga <alexandru.cotiuga(a)xwiki.com>om>:
>
>> +1
6:47 p.m.
ok everyone agreed.
What I proposed in this thread was to do option 1 as described at:
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9583?focusedCommentId=93094&page=com…
Now I’m still hesitating about doing option 2 (ie move as an extension but without
refactoring much the existing integration), see:
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9583?focusedCommentId=93096&page=com…
Should I still do option 1 or do you think option 2 is better. Option 2 is bit more work
but it boils down to whether we consider this feature to be core or not. We shouldn’t move
it outside of platform and to contrib if it’s to bring it back later on.
Thanks
-Vincent
On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
Hi devs,
I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been reported by Nicolas
that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the Message Stream feature and moreover
they even ask him to remove it.
One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS (either the global
one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with the page updates.
Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.
I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and less
cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already have a Message
Stream Admin UI config.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
18 Oct
18 Oct
4:37 p.m.
I’m doing option 1 ATM. We can do option 2 later on.
Thanks
-Vincent
On 17 Oct 2016, at 18:47, Vincent Massol
<vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
ok everyone agreed.
What I proposed in this thread was to do option 1 as described at:
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9583?focusedCommentId=93094&page=com…
Now I’m still hesitating about doing option 2 (ie move as an extension but without
refactoring much the existing integration), see:
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9583?focusedCommentId=93096&page=com…
Should I still do option 1 or do you think option 2 is better. Option 2 is bit more work
but it boils down to whether we consider this feature to be core or not. We shouldn’t move
it outside of platform and to contrib if it’s to bring it back later on.
Thanks
-Vincent
> On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote:
>
> Hi devs,
>
> I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been reported by
Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the Message Stream feature and
moreover they even ask him to remove it.
>
> One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS (either the
global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with the page updates.
>
> Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.
>
> I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and less
cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
>
> Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already have a
Message Stream Admin UI config.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
2890
days inactive
2893
days old
10 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Alexandru Cotiuga -
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Eduard Moraru -
Guillaume Delhumeau -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol