19 Oct
2015
19 Oct
'15
1:48 p.m.
Hi devs,
I’ve implemented http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12599 and as part of this issue I
needed to handle the SpaceDocs Panel, and we also need to handle the Spaces panel.
Here’s my proposal:
* In general we should list only Panels that work for the Nested Pages (NP) mode in the
Panel Wizard (i.e. not show any Panels containing the word “Space” in their title or
content). The rationale is that the majority of uses of XWiki will be for NP.
* We should continue to provide Panels that work for the Nested Spaces (NS) mode (e.g.
SpaceDocs, Spaces), but as extensions on e.x.o and not bundled by default in XE
* However we shouldn’t break existing XWiki instances and thus I’m proposing this:
** Deprecate the SpaceDocs and Spaces panels by displaying a message (when the user is
Admin), trying to push the move to the newer Panels (Children, Siblings and Navigation
panels). For example, this is what I’ve done for
SpaceDocs: https://www.evernote.com/l/AHfvmKs-DSZBh4IJf1Wp7VV5JfK2pEmfgME Note that this
allows Admins to see that message in the Panel Wizard too and thus not be tempted to use
them.
** Keep the deprecated Panels for 1 full cycle (i.e. remove them in XWiki 9.0, i.e. move
them to xwiki-contrib at that time). Basically a similar strategy than for young apis.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
19 Oct
19 Oct
3:41 p.m.
+1
Thanks,
Marius
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:48 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
Hi devs,
I’ve implemented http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12599 and as part of
this issue I needed to handle the SpaceDocs Panel, and we also need to
handle the Spaces panel.
Here’s my proposal:
* In general we should list only Panels that work for the Nested Pages
(NP) mode in the Panel Wizard (i.e. not show any Panels containing the word
“Space” in their title or content). The rationale is that the majority of
uses of XWiki will be for NP.
* We should continue to provide Panels that work for the Nested Spaces
(NS) mode (e.g. SpaceDocs, Spaces), but as extensions on e.x.o and not
bundled by default in XE
* However we shouldn’t break existing XWiki instances and thus I’m
proposing this:
** Deprecate the SpaceDocs and Spaces panels by displaying a message (when
the user is Admin), trying to push the move to the newer Panels (Children,
Siblings and Navigation panels). For example, this is what I’ve done for
SpaceDocs: https://www.evernote.com/l/AHfvmKs-DSZBh4IJf1Wp7VV5JfK2pEmfgME Note
that this allows Admins to see that message in the Panel Wizard too and
thus not be tempted to use them.
** Keep the deprecated Panels for 1 full cycle (i.e. remove them in XWiki
9.0, i.e. move them to xwiki-contrib at that time). Basically a similar
strategy than for young apis.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
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devs(a)xwiki.org
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20 Oct
20 Oct
3:22 p.m.
Please allow me to reiterate on the issues of using such terms ("siblings")
in the UI. More specifically, the biggest problems you have are
translations.
For example, in the Romanian language, there is no specific translation for
"sibling", and the word "frate" is used for both "sibling"
and "brother".
These terms are good to use internally, in technical situations held using
the English language, but, by no means are adequate for UIs. It will
inevitably cause dissent and concerns over gender discrimination (?) and,
at least as far as I am concerned, we really don`t want to go down that
road.
The English term "child" also benefits from being gender neutral, and it is
so probably (?) in many other languages, but, as detailed above, the same
does not apply for "sibling".
API & tree strucutres is one thing, UI is another.
+1 for the deprecation
-0 for the "Siblings" naming.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
+1
Thanks,
Marius
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:48 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
Hi devs,
I’ve implemented http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12599 and as part of
this issue I needed to handle the SpaceDocs Panel, and we also need to
handle the Spaces panel.
Here’s my proposal:
* In general we should list only Panels that work for the Nested Pages
(NP) mode in the Panel Wizard (i.e. not show any Panels containing the
word
“Space” in their title or content). The rationale
is that the majority of
uses of XWiki will be for NP.
* We should continue to provide Panels that work for the Nested Spaces
(NS) mode (e.g. SpaceDocs, Spaces), but as extensions on e.x.o and not
bundled by default in XE
* However we shouldn’t break existing XWiki instances and thus I’m
proposing this:
** Deprecate the SpaceDocs and Spaces panels by displaying a message
(when
the user is Admin), trying to push the move to
the newer Panels
(Children,
Siblings and Navigation panels). For example,
this is what I’ve done for
SpaceDocs:
https://www.evernote.com/l/AHfvmKs-DSZBh4IJf1Wp7VV5JfK2pEmfgME Note
that this allows Admins to see that message in
the Panel Wizard too and
thus not be tempted to use them.
** Keep the deprecated Panels for 1 full cycle (i.e. remove them in XWiki
9.0, i.e. move them to xwiki-contrib at that time). Basically a similar
strategy than for young apis.
WDYT?
Thanks
-Vincent
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
devs(a)xwiki.org
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
3:34 p.m.
Hi Edy,
On 20 Oct 2015 at 15:22:51, Eduard Moraru
(enygma2002@gmail.com(mailto:enygma2002@gmail.com)) wrote:
Please allow me to reiterate on the issues of using
such terms ("siblings")
in the UI. More specifically, the biggest problems you have are
translations.
For example, in the Romanian language, there is no specific translation for
"sibling", and the word "frate" is used for both "sibling"
and "brother".
These terms are good to use internally, in technical situations held using
the English language, but, by no means are adequate for UIs. It will
inevitably cause dissent and concerns over gender discrimination (?) and,
at least as far as I am concerned, we really don`t want to go down that
road.
The English term "child" also benefits from being gender neutral, and it is
so probably (?) in many other languages, but, as detailed above, the same
does not apply for "sibling".
API & tree strucutres is one thing, UI is another.
I personally don’t see any problem with using “Child”, “Children” or “Siblings” in
English. The fact that you have a problem to translate them in Romanian doesn’t negate the
usefulness of having those panels… The Romanian translators can translate them the way
that makes the most sense for their language (they can call them the equivalent of “Sub
Pages” or “Pages in Parent” if that’s what makes sense in Romanian). But in English I
don’t really see a problem for using those terms.
Also note that I followed the existing names used in viewers (children and siblings) since
it’s better to be consistent.
You should make a VOTE with several proposals if you care about this.
Thanks
-Vincent
+1 for the deprecation
-0 for the "Siblings" naming.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:48 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
> wrote:
>
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > I’ve implemented http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12599 and as part of
> > this issue I needed to handle the SpaceDocs Panel, and we also need to
> > handle the Spaces panel.
> >
> > Here’s my proposal:
> >
> > * In general we should list only Panels that work for the Nested Pages
> > (NP) mode in the Panel Wizard (i.e. not show any Panels containing the
> word
> > “Space” in their title or content). The rationale is that the majority of
> > uses of XWiki will be for NP.
> > * We should continue to provide Panels that work for the Nested Spaces
> > (NS) mode (e.g. SpaceDocs, Spaces), but as extensions on e.x.o and not
> > bundled by default in XE
> > * However we shouldn’t break existing XWiki instances and thus I’m
> > proposing this:
> > ** Deprecate the SpaceDocs and Spaces panels by displaying a message
> (when
> > the user is Admin), trying to push the move to the newer Panels
> (Children,
> > Siblings and Navigation panels). For example, this is what I’ve done for
> > SpaceDocs:
> https://www.evernote.com/l/AHfvmKs-DSZBh4IJf1Wp7VV5JfK2pEmfgME Note
> > that this allows Admins to see that message in the Panel Wizard too and
> > thus not be tempted to use them.
> > ** Keep the deprecated Panels for 1 full cycle (i.e. remove them in XWiki
> > 9.0, i.e. move them to xwiki-contrib at that time). Basically a similar
> > strategy than for young apis.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
4:15 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 4:34 PM, vincent(a)massol.net <vincent(a)massol.net>
wrote:
Hi Edy,
On 20 Oct 2015 at 15:22:51, Eduard Moraru (enygma2002(a)gmail.com(mailto:
enygma2002(a)gmail.com)) wrote:
Please don`t confuse the functionality with the naming issue.
Please allow me to reiterate on the issues of
using such terms
("siblings")
in the UI. More specifically, the biggest
problems you have are
translations.
For example, in the Romanian language, there is no specific translation
for
"sibling", and the word
"frate" is used for both "sibling" and "brother".
These terms are good to use internally, in technical situations held
using
the English language, but, by no means are
adequate for UIs. It will
inevitably cause dissent and concerns over gender discrimination (?) and,
at least as far as I am concerned, we really don`t want to go down that
road.
The English term "child" also benefits from being gender neutral, and it
is
so probably (?) in many other languages, but, as
detailed above, the same
does not apply for "sibling".
API & tree strucutres is one thing, UI is another.
I personally don’t see any problem with using “Child”, “Children” or
“Siblings” in English. The fact that you have a problem to translate them
in Romanian doesn’t negate the usefulness of having those panels … The Romanian translators can translate them the way
that makes the most
sense for their language (they can call them the equivalent of “Sub Pages”
or “Pages in Parent” if that’s what makes sense in Romanian). But in
English I don’t really see a problem for using those terms.
Also note that I followed the existing names used in
viewers (children and
siblings
... which were actually the ones that started this whole issue, at least as
far as I am concerned, so (again, from my POV) that only makes it worse :)
) since it’s better to be consistent.
You should make a VOTE with several proposals if you care about this.
Fair enough.
Thanks,
Eduard
Thanks
-Vincent
+1 for the deprecation
-0 for the "Siblings" naming.
Thanks,
Eduard
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:48 PM, vincent(a)massol.net
> wrote:
>
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > I’ve implemented http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12599 and as
part
of
> > this issue I needed to handle the
SpaceDocs Panel, and we also need
to
> > handle the Spaces panel.
> >
> > Here’s my proposal:
> >
> > * In general we should list only Panels that work for the Nested
Pages
> > (NP) mode in the Panel Wizard (i.e. not
show any Panels containing
the
> word
> > “Space” in their title or content). The rationale is that the
majority
of
> > uses of XWiki will be for NP.
> > * We should continue to provide Panels that work for the Nested
Spaces
> > (NS) mode (e.g. SpaceDocs, Spaces), but
as extensions on e.x.o and
not
> > bundled by default in XE
> > * However we shouldn’t break existing XWiki instances and thus I’m
> > proposing this:
> > ** Deprecate the SpaceDocs and Spaces panels by displaying a message
> (when
> > the user is Admin), trying to push the move to the newer Panels
> (Children,
> > Siblings and Navigation panels). For example, this is what I’ve done
for
> > SpaceDocs:
> https://www.evernote.com/l/AHfvmKs-DSZBh4IJf1Wp7VV5JfK2pEmfgME Note
> > that this allows Admins to see that message in the Panel Wizard too
and
> > thus not be tempted to use them.
> > ** Keep the deprecated Panels for 1 full cycle (i.e. remove them in
XWiki
> > 9.0, i.e. move them to xwiki-contrib at
that time). Basically a
similar
> > strategy than for young apis.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
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4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Eduard Moraru -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
vincent＠massol.net