On 9/21/18 4:53 PM, Adel Atallah wrote: OK I should have written it: by "forbid" I meant: 1. Hide the action from the menu 2. Return an error message if the user try to access the renaming/moving page (using forged URL) So you suggest we shouldn't do 2?

-- Simon Urli Software Engineer at XWiki SAS simon.urli(a)xwiki.com More about us at http://www.xwiki.com

So you suggest we shouldn't do 2?

-- Simon Urli Software Engineer at XWiki SAS simon.urli(a)xwiki.com More about us at http://www.xwiki.com

Hi, On 09/23/2018 10:12 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: renaming/moving page (using forged URL) This isn't a realy good idea IMO as we could break extensions that redirect a user to the rename action of a page using things such as $xwiki.getURL().

A good workaround would be to add the same warning as when editing extension pages [1].

Thanks, Clément [1] https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Documentation/UserGuide/Features/PageE… pages containing XClass definitions (the message should list all such pages). “Move/Rename” and “Copy" actions) because: click the action understand why he cannot see/click on the action. It’s better that he can do it but get an error message, explaining why and telling him that to contact an advanced users if he really needs to do it. containing XClass edit >>>> on XWiki pages >>>> >>>> WDYT? >>>> >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Simon Urli >>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >> >> -- >> Simon Urli >> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >

On 21 Sep 2018, at 16:58, Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> wrote: On 9/21/18 4:53 PM, Adel Atallah wrote: OK I should have written it: by "forbid" I meant: 1. Hide the action from the menu 2. Return an error message if the user try to access the

So you suggest we shouldn't do 2?

> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 4:44 PM Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com>

>> >> Hi all, >> >> users might currently break their AWM application by renaming/moving >> pages containing XClass definition. >> >> We need a proper refactoring operation to be able to properly do such >> move/rename. But this feature might take a while to be completely >> available. >> >> In the meantime I propose that we prevent users from renaming/moving >> pages containing XClass. >> >> What I propose is the following: >> - Forbid completely *simple users* to rename/move pages containing

>> - Display a warning to *advanced users* when they perform such >> operation: the same kind of warning we already have when performing

-- Simon Urli Software Engineer at XWiki SAS simon.urli(a)xwiki.com More about us at http://www.xwiki.com

On 25 Sep 2018, at 11:34, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 11:12 AM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: FTR, copying a single page having an XClass definition is not dangerous (it won't break the application that owns the page), as it only creates a new class definition. Copying an entire application is not dangerous either. The copy won't work like the original application (this justifies a warning as it may fail the user expectations), but the original application will still work. Renaming or moving an application is dangerous as it breaks the application.

> (the message should list all such pages). > > -1 to hide the action from the menu (if you’re talking about the > “Move/Rename” and “Copy" actions) because: > 1) you get to choose whether you move/rename/copy children after you click > the action > 2) even when the current page has an XClass, the user wouldn't understand > why he cannot see/click on the action. It’s better that he can do it but > get an error message, explaining why and telling him that to contact an > advanced users if he really needs to do it. > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> >>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 4:44 PM Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> users might currently break their AWM application by renaming/moving >>>> pages containing XClass definition. >>>> >>>> We need a proper refactoring operation to be able to properly do such >>>> move/rename. But this feature might take a while to be completely >>>> available. >>>> >>>> In the meantime I propose that we prevent users from renaming/moving >>>> pages containing XClass. >>>> >>>> What I propose is the following: >>>> - Forbid completely *simple users* to rename/move pages containing > XClass >>>> - Display a warning to *advanced users* when they perform such >>>> operation: the same kind of warning we already have when performing > edit >>>> on XWiki pages >>>> >>>> WDYT? >>>> >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Simon Urli >>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >> >> -- >> Simon Urli >> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com

Hi Marius, Yes you’re correct. Unless the user does a copy + delete ;) Thanks -Vincent

Hi everyone, ok trying to sum-up (I'm only talking about cases with XClass below, to simplify): - according to Vincent, we should completely prevent simple users to copy/move/rename and only allow advanced users to do it after a warning - according to Adel & Clément: preventing simple users will be useless as they can easily switch the advanced feature in their account - according to Marius copying a page/app is not necessarily harmful compared to moving/renaming and we should manage it differently. I really don't know the practice of users on the field, but it looks to me that preventing simple users to do the action and telling them to ask an advanced user is actually a good trade-off: 1. it will warn users that they might be doing something wrong 2. it's not something completely blocking: either they ask for the admin/advanced user, or they know they can switch the advanced features by themselves, at their own risks Now maybe we can only do the warning for the "copy" action. WDYT? Simon On 9/25/18 11:36 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: > Hi Marius, > >> On 25 Sep 2018, at 11:34, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >> >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 11:12 AM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi Simon, >>> >>>> On 21 Sep 2018, at 16:58, Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/21/18 4:53 PM, Adel Atallah wrote: >>>>> +1 for the warning, but I would not forbid simple users from renaming >>>>> or moving pages but instead just hide the action (from the page menu). >>>> >>>> OK I should have written it: by "forbid" I meant: >>>> >>>> 1. Hide the action from the menu >>>> 2. Return an error message if the user try to access the >>> renaming/moving page (using forged URL) >>>> >>>> So you suggest we shouldn't do 2? >>> >>> So +1 to prevent/warn the user when doing a move/renaming >> >> >> >>> AND copy pages containing XClass definitions >> >> >> FTR, copying a single page having an XClass definition is not dangerous (it >> won't break the application that owns the page), as it only creates a new >> class definition. Copying an entire application is not dangerous either. >> The copy won't work like the original application (this justifies a warning >> as it may fail the user expectations), but the original application will >> still work. Renaming or moving an application is dangerous as it breaks the >> application. > > Yes you’re correct. Unless the user does a copy + delete ;) > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> >>> (the message should list all such pages). >>> >>> -1 to hide the action from the menu (if you’re talking about the >>> “Move/Rename” and “Copy" actions) because: >>> 1) you get to choose whether you move/rename/copy children after you click >>> the action >>> 2) even when the current page has an XClass, the user wouldn't understand >>> why he cannot see/click on the action. It’s better that he can do it but >>> get an error message, explaining why and telling him that to contact an >>> advanced users if he really needs to do it. >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 4:44 PM Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> users might currently break their AWM application by renaming/moving >>>>>> pages containing XClass definition. >>>>>> >>>>>> We need a proper refactoring operation to be able to properly do such >>>>>> move/rename. But this feature might take a while to be completely >>>>>> available. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the meantime I propose that we prevent users from renaming/moving >>>>>> pages containing XClass. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I propose is the following: >>>>>> - Forbid completely *simple users* to rename/move pages containing >>> XClass >>>>>> - Display a warning to *advanced users* when they perform such >>>>>> operation: the same kind of warning we already have when performing >>> edit >>>>>> on XWiki pages >>>>>> >>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>> >>>>>> Simon >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Simon Urli >>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >

Hi Simon, The nice part about the listener is that it works for all use cases: * rename/move from the UI * rename/move from scripts * etc

The bad parts are: 1) right now we don’t provide a nice UI when an event is cancelled. AFAIR we just display a stack trace in the UI which is definitely not good enough. Are you improving this part?

2) this is after the fact. Imagine that you’re renaming a set of pages and among them there are several coming from an app. It’ll work fine on pages not having an XClass (like moving the page having an XObject of that XClass) and then failing down the line on the page having the XClass. That’s a problem because the xobject page will be wrongly moved, since it doesn’t make sense that it’s moved if the other pages of the app are not moved. Generally speaking you’ll have a bad state that is not easy to rollback. This is why for me the check also has to be done in the move/rename UI and verify that among the list of pages there are none with XClass and if so prevent moving/renaming any page. This is not in contradiction with the listener but the more important (from a usage POV) is the check in the move/rename UI and not the listener which is a more advanced use case.

AFAIK if you copy a set of pages with pages having an XClass in it, then the copied pages won’t work so we shouldn’t drop this. We should just implement the protection at the UI level (ie the copy action), same as for rename/move and not implement the listener part (ie not support the script use case).

Thanks -Vincent > > Simon > > > On 9/26/18 10:27 AM, Simon Urli wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> ok trying to sum-up (I'm only talking about cases with XClass below, to simplify): >> - according to Vincent, we should completely prevent simple users to copy/move/rename and only allow advanced users to do it after a warning >> - according to Adel & Clément: preventing simple users will be useless as they can easily switch the advanced feature in their account >> - according to Marius copying a page/app is not necessarily harmful compared to moving/renaming and we should manage it differently. >> I really don't know the practice of users on the field, but it looks to me that preventing simple users to do the action and telling them to ask an advanced user is actually a good trade-off: >> 1. it will warn users that they might be doing something wrong >> 2. it's not something completely blocking: either they ask for the admin/advanced user, or they know they can switch the advanced features by themselves, at their own risks >> Now maybe we can only do the warning for the "copy" action. >> WDYT? >> Simon >> On 9/25/18 11:36 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>> Hi Marius, >>> >>>> On 25 Sep 2018, at 11:34, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 11:12 AM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Simon, >>>>> >>>>>> On 21 Sep 2018, at 16:58, Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/21/18 4:53 PM, Adel Atallah wrote: >>>>>>> +1 for the warning, but I would not forbid simple users from renaming >>>>>>> or moving pages but instead just hide the action (from the page menu). >>>>>> >>>>>> OK I should have written it: by "forbid" I meant: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Hide the action from the menu >>>>>> 2. Return an error message if the user try to access the >>>>> renaming/moving page (using forged URL) >>>>>> >>>>>> So you suggest we shouldn't do 2? >>>>> >>>>> So +1 to prevent/warn the user when doing a move/renaming >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> AND copy pages containing XClass definitions >>>> >>>> >>>> FTR, copying a single page having an XClass definition is not dangerous (it >>>> won't break the application that owns the page), as it only creates a new >>>> class definition. Copying an entire application is not dangerous either. >>>> The copy won't work like the original application (this justifies a warning >>>> as it may fail the user expectations), but the original application will >>>> still work. Renaming or moving an application is dangerous as it breaks the >>>> application. >>> >>> Yes you’re correct. Unless the user does a copy + delete ;) >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> >>>>> (the message should list all such pages). >>>>> >>>>> -1 to hide the action from the menu (if you’re talking about the >>>>> “Move/Rename” and “Copy" actions) because: >>>>> 1) you get to choose whether you move/rename/copy children after you click >>>>> the action >>>>> 2) even when the current page has an XClass, the user wouldn't understand >>>>> why he cannot see/click on the action. It’s better that he can do it but >>>>> get an error message, explaining why and telling him that to contact an >>>>> advanced users if he really needs to do it. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 4:44 PM Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> users might currently break their AWM application by renaming/moving >>>>>>>> pages containing XClass definition. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We need a proper refactoring operation to be able to properly do such >>>>>>>> move/rename. But this feature might take a while to be completely >>>>>>>> available. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the meantime I propose that we prevent users from renaming/moving >>>>>>>> pages containing XClass. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What I propose is the following: >>>>>>>> - Forbid completely *simple users* to rename/move pages containing >>>>> XClass >>>>>>>> - Display a warning to *advanced users* when they perform such >>>>>>>> operation: the same kind of warning we already have when performing >>>>> edit >>>>>>>> on XWiki pages >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>> > > -- > Simon Urli > Software Engineer at XWiki SAS > simon.urli(a)xwiki.com > More about us at http://www.xwiki.com

Hi Simon, Ok cool so it seems you have it implemented at both the job level and the listener level. This is what happens in the AntiSpam app when the event is cancelled (ie when it finds some spam in the doc): https://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Extension/AntiSpam%20Tool%2… As you can see it’s not really user-friendly. Maybe you don’t get this because you’re running inside a job? But in this case I don’t understand why you need a listener since you check for XClass before you start the move/rename. I must be missing something.

This listener is registered only during rename/move? What happens if I write a script that moves/renames pages with XClass?

I still think we should handle it with a warning to explain this. It’s easy for me, we just need to check for XClass and warn that any copied pages having a link to this XClass will no longer point to it but will keep pointing to the original XClass. Easy to do.

Thanks -Vincent > > Simon >> Thanks >> -Vincent >>> >>> Simon >>> >>> >>> On 9/26/18 10:27 AM, Simon Urli wrote: >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> ok trying to sum-up (I'm only talking about cases with XClass below, to simplify): >>>> - according to Vincent, we should completely prevent simple users to copy/move/rename and only allow advanced users to do it after a warning >>>> - according to Adel & Clément: preventing simple users will be useless as they can easily switch the advanced feature in their account >>>> - according to Marius copying a page/app is not necessarily harmful compared to moving/renaming and we should manage it differently. >>>> I really don't know the practice of users on the field, but it looks to me that preventing simple users to do the action and telling them to ask an advanced user is actually a good trade-off: >>>> 1. it will warn users that they might be doing something wrong >>>> 2. it's not something completely blocking: either they ask for the admin/advanced user, or they know they can switch the advanced features by themselves, at their own risks >>>> Now maybe we can only do the warning for the "copy" action. >>>> WDYT? >>>> Simon >>>> On 9/25/18 11:36 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>> Hi Marius, >>>>> >>>>>> On 25 Sep 2018, at 11:34, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 11:12 AM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Simon, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 21 Sep 2018, at 16:58, Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/21/18 4:53 PM, Adel Atallah wrote: >>>>>>>>> +1 for the warning, but I would not forbid simple users from renaming >>>>>>>>> or moving pages but instead just hide the action (from the page menu). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OK I should have written it: by "forbid" I meant: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Hide the action from the menu >>>>>>>> 2. Return an error message if the user try to access the >>>>>>> renaming/moving page (using forged URL) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So you suggest we shouldn't do 2? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So +1 to prevent/warn the user when doing a move/renaming >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> AND copy pages containing XClass definitions >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> FTR, copying a single page having an XClass definition is not dangerous (it >>>>>> won't break the application that owns the page), as it only creates a new >>>>>> class definition. Copying an entire application is not dangerous either. >>>>>> The copy won't work like the original application (this justifies a warning >>>>>> as it may fail the user expectations), but the original application will >>>>>> still work. Renaming or moving an application is dangerous as it breaks the >>>>>> application. >>>>> >>>>> Yes you’re correct. Unless the user does a copy + delete ;) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> (the message should list all such pages). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -1 to hide the action from the menu (if you’re talking about the >>>>>>> “Move/Rename” and “Copy" actions) because: >>>>>>> 1) you get to choose whether you move/rename/copy children after you click >>>>>>> the action >>>>>>> 2) even when the current page has an XClass, the user wouldn't understand >>>>>>> why he cannot see/click on the action. It’s better that he can do it but >>>>>>> get an error message, explaining why and telling him that to contact an >>>>>>> advanced users if he really needs to do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 4:44 PM Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> users might currently break their AWM application by renaming/moving >>>>>>>>>> pages containing XClass definition. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We need a proper refactoring operation to be able to properly do such >>>>>>>>>> move/rename. But this feature might take a while to be completely >>>>>>>>>> available. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In the meantime I propose that we prevent users from renaming/moving >>>>>>>>>> pages containing XClass. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What I propose is the following: >>>>>>>>>> - Forbid completely *simple users* to rename/move pages containing >>>>>>> XClass >>>>>>>>>> - Display a warning to *advanced users* when they perform such >>>>>>>>>> operation: the same kind of warning we already have when performing >>>>>>> edit >>>>>>>>>> on XWiki pages >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Simon Urli >>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com > > -- > Simon Urli > Software Engineer at XWiki SAS > simon.urli(a)xwiki.com > More about us at http://www.xwiki.com

Yes and I remember mentioning that for me it’s too late… How do you rollback the move/rename if you find an XClass after having renamed/moved 100 pages? And yes there’s the same problem with the other refactoring (and I already mentioned the problem) but we need to improve at some point and not continue doing it in a suboptimal way. We need to put ourselves in the shoes of the user.

ok, so try this: http://playground.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/delete/MyPage/?confirm=1 What happens?

Yes, I agree. Thanks -Vincent > > Simon >> Thanks >> -Vincent >>> >>> Simon >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>> Simon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/26/18 10:27 AM, Simon Urli wrote: >>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>> ok trying to sum-up (I'm only talking about cases with XClass below, to simplify): >>>>>> - according to Vincent, we should completely prevent simple users to copy/move/rename and only allow advanced users to do it after a warning >>>>>> - according to Adel & Clément: preventing simple users will be useless as they can easily switch the advanced feature in their account >>>>>> - according to Marius copying a page/app is not necessarily harmful compared to moving/renaming and we should manage it differently. >>>>>> I really don't know the practice of users on the field, but it looks to me that preventing simple users to do the action and telling them to ask an advanced user is actually a good trade-off: >>>>>> 1. it will warn users that they might be doing something wrong >>>>>> 2. it's not something completely blocking: either they ask for the admin/advanced user, or they know they can switch the advanced features by themselves, at their own risks >>>>>> Now maybe we can only do the warning for the "copy" action. >>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>> Simon >>>>>> On 9/25/18 11:36 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Marius, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 25 Sep 2018, at 11:34, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 11:12 AM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Simon, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 21 Sep 2018, at 16:58, Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/21/18 4:53 PM, Adel Atallah wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> +1 for the warning, but I would not forbid simple users from renaming >>>>>>>>>>> or moving pages but instead just hide the action (from the page menu). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OK I should have written it: by "forbid" I meant: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Hide the action from the menu >>>>>>>>>> 2. Return an error message if the user try to access the >>>>>>>>> renaming/moving page (using forged URL) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So you suggest we shouldn't do 2? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So +1 to prevent/warn the user when doing a move/renaming >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> AND copy pages containing XClass definitions >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> FTR, copying a single page having an XClass definition is not dangerous (it >>>>>>>> won't break the application that owns the page), as it only creates a new >>>>>>>> class definition. Copying an entire application is not dangerous either. >>>>>>>> The copy won't work like the original application (this justifies a warning >>>>>>>> as it may fail the user expectations), but the original application will >>>>>>>> still work. Renaming or moving an application is dangerous as it breaks the >>>>>>>> application. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes you’re correct. Unless the user does a copy + delete ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (the message should list all such pages). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -1 to hide the action from the menu (if you’re talking about the >>>>>>>>> “Move/Rename” and “Copy" actions) because: >>>>>>>>> 1) you get to choose whether you move/rename/copy children after you click >>>>>>>>> the action >>>>>>>>> 2) even when the current page has an XClass, the user wouldn't understand >>>>>>>>> why he cannot see/click on the action. It’s better that he can do it but >>>>>>>>> get an error message, explaining why and telling him that to contact an >>>>>>>>> advanced users if he really needs to do it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 4:44 PM Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> users might currently break their AWM application by renaming/moving >>>>>>>>>>>> pages containing XClass definition. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We need a proper refactoring operation to be able to properly do such >>>>>>>>>>>> move/rename. But this feature might take a while to be completely >>>>>>>>>>>> available. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In the meantime I propose that we prevent users from renaming/moving >>>>>>>>>>>> pages containing XClass. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What I propose is the following: >>>>>>>>>>>> - Forbid completely *simple users* to rename/move pages containing >>>>>>>>> XClass >>>>>>>>>>>> - Display a warning to *advanced users* when they perform such >>>>>>>>>>>> operation: the same kind of warning we already have when performing >>>>>>>>> edit >>>>>>>>>>>> on XWiki pages >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>>>>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>>>>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Simon Urli >>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>> >>> -- >>> Simon Urli >>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com > > -- > Simon Urli > Software Engineer at XWiki SAS > simon.urli(a)xwiki.com > More about us at http://www.xwiki.com

Before any page in the set has been moved/renamed? Are we running 2 jobs? One job to perform the check on all pages and another job to perform the refactoring?

Thanks -Vincent >>> >>>>> >>>>>> 2) this is after the fact. Imagine that you’re renaming a set of pages and among them there are several coming from an app. It’ll work fine on pages not having an XClass (like moving the page having an XObject of that XClass) and then failing down the line on the page having the XClass. That’s a problem because the xobject page will be wrongly moved, since it doesn’t make sense that it’s moved if the other pages of the app are not moved. Generally speaking you’ll have a bad state that is not easy to rollback. >>>>>> This is why for me the check also has to be done in the move/rename UI and verify that among the list of pages there are none with XClass and if so prevent moving/renaming any page. >>>>>> This is not in contradiction with the listener but the more important (from a usage POV) is the check in the move/rename UI and not the listener which is a more advanced use case. >>>>> >>>>> There might be a misunderstanding here: I use the listener to check the event that are fired during the rename/move. As you can see in my screenshot, I got the warning in the move/refactoring UI. >>>> This listener is registered only during rename/move? >>>> What happens if I write a script that moves/renames pages with XClass? >>> >>> Nop the listener is globally registered, so I assume it would be triggered when running a script too. >> ok, so try this: http://playground.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/delete/MyPage/?confirm=1 >> What happens?

> > Coming back to you after I checked :) >>> >>>>>>> Now going back on "Copy" the page, it's another job as I cannot rely on a "Deleting" event. I checked quickly and I don't think I really could rely on other events for this: basically copying is about creating a document and updating its content, and I don't think we want to rely on those event for this mechanism. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So unless you have another proposal to handle this case, I propose to simply drop it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you agree? >>>>>> AFAIK if you copy a set of pages with pages having an XClass in it, then the copied pages won’t work so we shouldn’t drop this. We should just implement the protection at the UI level (ie the copy action), same as for rename/move and not implement the listener part (ie not support the script use case). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I don't agree: the pages would work, but if they contain XObject they won't use the copied XClass, only the older one. >>>>> So for me the issue is not exactly the same: the problematic is not about copying an XClass here, but a couple XClass + XObject. More difficult to detect and to handle IMO. >>>> I still think we should handle it with a warning to explain this. It’s easy for me, we just need to check for XClass and warn that any copied pages having a link to this XClass will no longer point to it but will keep pointing to the original XClass. Easy to do. >>> >>> I can handle it only on the UI side then. >> Yes, I agree. >> Thanks >> -Vincent >>> >>> Simon >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>> Simon >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/26/18 10:27 AM, Simon Urli wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>>> ok trying to sum-up (I'm only talking about cases with XClass below, to simplify): >>>>>>>> - according to Vincent, we should completely prevent simple users to copy/move/rename and only allow advanced users to do it after a warning >>>>>>>> - according to Adel & Clément: preventing simple users will be useless as they can easily switch the advanced feature in their account >>>>>>>> - according to Marius copying a page/app is not necessarily harmful compared to moving/renaming and we should manage it differently. >>>>>>>> I really don't know the practice of users on the field, but it looks to me that preventing simple users to do the action and telling them to ask an advanced user is actually a good trade-off: >>>>>>>> 1. it will warn users that they might be doing something wrong >>>>>>>> 2. it's not something completely blocking: either they ask for the admin/advanced user, or they know they can switch the advanced features by themselves, at their own risks >>>>>>>> Now maybe we can only do the warning for the "copy" action. >>>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>> On 9/25/18 11:36 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Marius, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 25 Sep 2018, at 11:34, Marius Dumitru Florea <mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 11:12 AM Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Simon, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 21 Sep 2018, at 16:58, Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/21/18 4:53 PM, Adel Atallah wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for the warning, but I would not forbid simple users from renaming >>>>>>>>>>>>> or moving pages but instead just hide the action (from the page menu). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> OK I should have written it: by "forbid" I meant: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Hide the action from the menu >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Return an error message if the user try to access the >>>>>>>>>>> renaming/moving page (using forged URL) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So you suggest we shouldn't do 2? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So +1 to prevent/warn the user when doing a move/renaming >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> AND copy pages containing XClass definitions >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> FTR, copying a single page having an XClass definition is not dangerous (it >>>>>>>>>> won't break the application that owns the page), as it only creates a new >>>>>>>>>> class definition. Copying an entire application is not dangerous either. >>>>>>>>>> The copy won't work like the original application (this justifies a warning >>>>>>>>>> as it may fail the user expectations), but the original application will >>>>>>>>>> still work. Renaming or moving an application is dangerous as it breaks the >>>>>>>>>> application. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes you’re correct. Unless the user does a copy + delete ;) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (the message should list all such pages). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -1 to hide the action from the menu (if you’re talking about the >>>>>>>>>>> “Move/Rename” and “Copy" actions) because: >>>>>>>>>>> 1) you get to choose whether you move/rename/copy children after you click >>>>>>>>>>> the action >>>>>>>>>>> 2) even when the current page has an XClass, the user wouldn't understand >>>>>>>>>>> why he cannot see/click on the action. It’s better that he can do it but >>>>>>>>>>> get an error message, explaining why and telling him that to contact an >>>>>>>>>>> advanced users if he really needs to do it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 4:44 PM Simon Urli <simon.urli(a)xwiki.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users might currently break their AWM application by renaming/moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pages containing XClass definition. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need a proper refactoring operation to be able to properly do such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> move/rename. But this feature might take a while to be completely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> available. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the meantime I propose that we prevent users from renaming/moving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pages containing XClass. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I propose is the following: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Forbid completely *simple users* to rename/move pages containing >>>>>>>>>>> XClass >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Display a warning to *advanced users* when they perform such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operation: the same kind of warning we already have when performing >>>>>>>>>>> edit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on XWiki pages >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>>>>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>>>>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Simon Urli >>>>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Simon Urli >>>>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>>>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>>>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com >>> >>> -- >>> Simon Urli >>> Software Engineer at XWiki SAS >>> simon.urli(a)xwiki.com >>> More about us at http://www.xwiki.com > > -- > Simon Urli > Software Engineer at XWiki SAS > simon.urli(a)xwiki.com > More about us at http://www.xwiki.com

[snip] ok cool, I don’t fully understand the implementation but I don’t need to ;) (I can check the code if I need).