Hi Caty, On 02/09/2011 12:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote: http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWikiEnterpris… ). http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… What's the benefit of enforcing the same width? I think I prefer the width to depend on the size of the information displayed (for select boxes) or expected to be entered (text input). For instance if I have a text input for entering a small number I wouldn't like it to span the entire page width. Same for a select box with options of small length (e.g. Yes/No).

From an usability point of view, the restricted cases where we should adjust

Thanks, Marius high resolutions space. A smaller http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Polls/AdministrationFormsfullwi… _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi, ** Partial ou Full ?* Partial ! Just imagin the full solution with a 1920px resolution...

... Long lines, text on the right, button far on the left, on what am I clicking on already ? ** Having anotations on the left.* Nice idea. It helps a lot on such complicated things as the wiki configuration. If possible, each explanation could be on the front of the field it is related to make it easier to read. Have a nice day Thibaut DEVERAUX Tel : 06 75 51 20 80 thibaut.deveraux(a)gmail.com http://www.thib-d.com Skype : thibaut.deveraux @ Bricks, design et accompagnement projet t.deveraux(a)bricks-studio.com Découvrir Bricks : bricks-studio.com L'actualité du studio sur notre blog : bricks-it.com Se renseigner sur le design : design-keys.org 2011/2/9 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac(a)gmail.com> _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hello, On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent(a)massol.net> wrote: I would choose partial width + a way how to extend to full width and get back to partial width. It would be a button/link on the top right with a small JS script adding and removing the 'half' class name that is used on the form. By default it should be partial width. This is kind of the same behavior of 'Maximize »' option used for textarea fields inside object editor.

Raluca. > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> ... Long lines, text on the right, button far on the left, on what am I >> clicking on already ? >> >> ** Having anotations on the left.* >> >> Nice idea. It helps a lot on such complicated things as the wiki >> configuration. >> If possible, each explanation could be on the front of the field it is >> related to make it easier to read. >> >> Have a nice day >> >> Thibaut DEVERAUX >> Tel : 06 75 51 20 80 >> thibaut.deveraux(a)gmail.com >> http://www.thib-d.com >> Skype : thibaut.deveraux >> >> @ Bricks, design et accompagnement projet >> t.deveraux(a)bricks-studio.com >> Découvrir Bricks : bricks-studio.com >> L'actualité du studio sur notre blog : bricks-it.com >> Se renseigner sur le design : design-keys.org >> >> >> >> 2011/2/9 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; >> >>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 14:25, Marius Dumitru Florea < >>> mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Caty, >>>> >>>> On 02/09/2011 12:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Since XE 3.0M2 we have a new administration look ( >>>>> >>>> >>> > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWikiEnterpris… >>>> ). >>>>> >>>>> There was a debate if the forms should be full width or not. >>>>> >>>>> *Variants*: >>>>> 1) *Partial Width* (current): >>>>> >>>> >>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… >>>>> 2) *Full Width*: >>>>> >>>> >>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… >>>> >>>> What's the benefit of enforcing the same width? I think I prefer the >>>> width to depend on the size of the information displayed (for select >>>> boxes) or expected to be entered (text input). For instance if I have a >>>> text input for entering a small number I wouldn't like it to span the >>>> entire page width. Same for a select box with options of small length >>>> (e.g. Yes/No). >>>> >>>> >>> Until the form standard, we had all kinds of sizes for text inputs, >>> textareas, select boxes. This created a very messy/not standardized >>> feeling. >>> >>> Test: remove "xform" class from <form class="xform half". Results: >>> >>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… >>> >>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… >>> >>> Having all controls the same width the form layout presents itself >>> differently: it look compact, aligned and unitary. >>> >>> Beside the unitary look, you can have also some technical reasons. The >>> other >>> solution beside a 100% width for most of the controls, would have been > to >>> set some standardized sizes for each type of control. This sizes are >>> already >>> defined in "Size" column of the "Usage" category >>> http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/VerticalForms and are >>> recommended to be used on future forms (and also to be modified on the > old >>> forms - already done for some forms I revised). >>> The problem with this approach is that this means that we should have >>> changed all the existing code that contained forms elements in order for >>> the >>> forms to look unitary and standardized. >>> Also, some browsers (like IE) don't render the same width for different >>> controls even if you specify the same size (ex. <input type='text' >>> size='60' >>> will be longer than <input type='password' size='60' ). So this means > again >>> different widths, more frustration (obs. even with width 100% for all >>> controls, <select> is still rendered shorter). >>> >>> From an usability point of view, the restricted cases where we should >>> adjust >>> the width of our form fields so it matches the length of the expected > input >>> are: credit card number (16 digits), credit card security code (4 > digits), >>> dates (2 digits + x + 4digits, but this case can be replaced with other >>> solutions: date pickers, selects, etc). This are some of the cases where > we >>> know the exact size of the field and can act accordingly. Beside them, >>> there >>> are no rules and all is limited to what the developer/designer thinks > fits >>> the layout. We already have an exception for "Inline" layout forms ( >>> http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/DevGuide/InlineForms ) and we > can >>> make styles also for the cases mentioned above, but those cases are not >>> encountered in XE standard distribution. >>> >>> Hope this answers the question, >>> Caty >>> >>> >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Marius >>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Test*: You can test this "partial"/"full" width on your resolution by >>>>> removing "half" class from "<form class='xform half"" definition. >>>>> >>>>> *Considerations*: >>>>> - When voting please consider that the width will be set for small and >>>> high >>>>> resolutions (that until we will improve our skin to detect the >>>> resolutions >>>>> change). >>>>> - You should consider how form controls look (readability, usability) >>> on >>>>> different sizes, like<select>, input, textarea, etc. >>>>> >>>>> *Other Solutions*: >>>>> A. The problem is that on large resolution is hard to read the > controls >>>>> because the form are too wide - on small resolution there is unused >>>> space. A >>>>> solution would be to use CSS media queries and adjust the width for >>>> smaller >>>>> resolutions. >>>>> B. Another solution would be to use the additional space given by the >>>>> partial width and provide some extra help for the sections, see >>>>> smaller resolution: >>>>> >>>> >>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… >>>>> higher resolution: >>>>> >>>> >>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… >>>>> >>>>> *Vote*: >>>>> You can use the poll made for this vote: >>>>> >>>> >>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Polls/AdministrationFormsfullwi… >>>>> or if you don't have an account on incubator, just reply to this mail. >>>>> Please cast you votes. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Caty

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 17:39, Vincent Massol&lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt; wrote: I wouldn't add JS script to switch between modes. Is not a matter of choice, but a matter of standard.

IMO is not about having "unused space". For me, if we make the forms full width, the "unused space" will be still unused, but will be placed inside the forms instead of outside. Having the forms 1000px wide doesn't provide me any advantage over having them 400px. The inputs need to be big enough to enter the right amount of information in them. That's why the only problem with "partial" width is when the screen is smaller, the forms are not big enough. This is the only case I would make the input bigger (have min-width : 350px; for example). On the other hand, on wide screens, having the forms 100% is too much. First of all is bad readability. For me, I just see lines and is hard to distinguish the inputs from the background. My eyes need to scan the whole area in order to determine its boundaries. Then is about control type: the difference between input and select. The user will have to scan 1000px to get to see if the select has the drop-down arrow or is just an input field.

Also, I would you to imagine full width on forms like "Create Space", "Create Page", "Copy Page", etc. Thanks, Caty _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Code is very long... I see it now. Difficult to deal with half cutted code lines so the full option makes sense... Of course, this is a problem for select boxes and buttons. User need to make a bigger effort to look what is linked to what.

Having buttons/select at half and and boxes full may not help neither to see where are the buttons, because there may be no coherence of where to watch. Well, this could be tested however, to be sure it is a real problem and not a theorical one. I have to correct my vote. Even if I'd like to see the half/half solution I feel like full is the best solution taking in account the long code constraint. Thanks Thibaut DEVERAUX Tel : 06 75 51 20 80 thibaut.deveraux(a)gmail.com http://www.thib-d.com Skype : thibaut.deveraux @ Bricks, design et accompagnement projet t.deveraux(a)bricks-studio.com Découvrir Bricks : bricks-studio.com L'actualité du studio sur notre blog : bricks-it.com Se renseigner sur le design : design-keys.org 2011/2/9 Marius Dumitru Florea &lt;mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: to full inside enough big to The am http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWikiEnterpris… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… inputs, standardized http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… are order means ( and are definition. small by http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Polls/AdministrationFormsfullwi… _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:53 PM, Thibaut DEVERAUX wrote: I am on 1920px and I can tell that the full width is nicer than the partial solution which doesn't even reach half of the screen making all text cluttered and not using the screen real estate. Partial: http://tinycoke.com/_6ripkVnWC9iA/partial.png Full: http://tinycoke.com/_6r6qg3AQJmy8I/full.png See how texts are nicer in full.

fixed sized based on the length of the inputs in them, but for Text and TextArea fields it's much nicer to take the full size.

Thanks -Vincent http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWikiEnterpris… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… to old again input digits), we fits can >> make styles also for the cases mentioned above, but those cases are not >> encountered in XE standard distribution. >> >> Hope this answers the question, >> Caty >> >>> Thanks, >>> Marius >>> >>>> >>>> *Test*: You can test this "partial"/"full" width on your resolution by >>>> removing "half" class from "<form class='xform half"" definition. >>>> >>>> *Considerations*: >>>> - When voting please consider that the width will be set for small and >>> high >>>> resolutions (that until we will improve our skin to detect the >>> resolutions >>>> change). >>>> - You should consider how form controls look (readability, usability) >> on >>>> different sizes, like<select>, input, textarea, etc. >>>> >>>> *Other Solutions*: >>>> A. The problem is that on large resolution is hard to read the controls http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Polls/AdministrationFormsfullwi… _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Hi, ** Partial ou Full ?* Partial ! Just imagin the full solution with a 1920px resolution... ... Long lines, text on the right, button far on the left, on what am I clicking on already ?

** Having anotations on the left.* Nice idea. It helps a lot on such complicated things as the wiki configuration. If possible, each explanation could be on the front of the field it is related to make it easier to read. Have a nice day Thibaut DEVERAUX Tel : 06 75 51 20 80 thibaut.deveraux(a)gmail.com http://www.thib-d.com Skype : thibaut.deveraux @ Bricks, design et accompagnement projet t.deveraux(a)bricks-studio.com Découvrir Bricks : bricks-studio.com L'actualité du studio sur notre blog : bricks-it.com Se renseigner sur le design : design-keys.org 2011/2/9 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)&lt;valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

wrote:

wrote:

- replace Presentation > Footer > "Copyright notice" and "Version" with textareas instead of inputs. When the content is too big to accommodate the control we select a better suited control.

Thanks, Caty http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWikiEnterpris… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… a http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… are for different other where we not by and usability) the http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Polls/AdministrationFormsfu… http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Polls/AdministrationFormsfullwi… mail. _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs(a)xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs