Hi, please see my comments inline. On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne(a)xwiki.com > I have pretty much the same comments. The former location of that > button made much more sense to me but given my usual participation to > big Flaming design discussions I can't really complain too much ;) > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002(a)gmail.com> > > Hi devs, > > > > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but > in > > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and > > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a > > various number of reasons: > > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. > > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the > page > > content) > I'm not sure that's a problem. The default behavior of the "create page" button is to create a page that is a child of the current page. Therefore, it can be considered a "current page-related" action. Indeed, this would need to be improved. I don't have a strong feeling about this. The only comparison I can think of right off the bat is Confluence, which has the same button in a similar location. It doesn't seem to be causing issues to their users. I would see sense in adding "comment" as an option next to "page" and "page from office". As stated previously, I think having the same "Create" button for 3 actions that are fundamentally different is the larger issue here. I suggested a solution in the aforementioned email thread (separating the "create space" and "create wiki" buttons). Thanks, Guillaume

Hi again, On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user directory, for all the AWM homepages... Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it <http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+Number+Module> ). Guillaume

Hi Marius, On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: Yes and yes :-) Guillaume

Hi, On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why: 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already exist 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such as "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) Best, Guillaume Thanks, -- Guillaume Lerouge guillaumelerouge.com <http://www.guillaumelerouge.com/> 06 10 79 76 70

Hi, On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-) Guillaume -- Venez nous rencontrer lors du *petit-déjeuner XWiki le mardi 7 octobre 2014 !* <http://info.xwiki.com/petit-dejeuner-XWiki-octobre-2014.html> -- <http://www.xwiki.com/>*Guillaume Lerouge* *Director of Sales & Marketing* Mail: guillaume(a)xwiki.com Mobile: *+33 6 10 79 76 70*Tel: *+33 1 45 42 40 90*

Hi, after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place. Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another. WDYT? Guillaume ᐧ On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru &lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent(a)massol.net &lt;vincent(a)massol.net&gt;et>: -- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project

2014-10-01 11:04 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt;gt;: It's getting closer and closer from its original location ! :D

  On 1 Oct 2014 at 12:08:23, Denis Gervalle (dgl@softec.lu(mailto:dgl@softec.lu)) wrote: Yes I completely agree about that. Why not, but I’d like to separate the 2 issues so that we can move on quickly ;) Thanks -Vincent

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt; wrote: Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru &lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Hi, Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions. One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase. Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before. We used 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc. ---- I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this change because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems. If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often). Thanks, Caty

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru &lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt; > > > Hi, > > > > I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less > > back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button > is > > now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :) > > > > Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that > awkward > > feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a > > question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in > > practice and what makes sense. > > > > Hi, > > Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original > Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason > some of the things changed: listening to different opinions. > > One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we > proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' > should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions > should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase. > I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option. I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic. I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion. Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :) > > Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related > > entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I > never > > did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not > > recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, > > for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly > with > > the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in > > the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown. > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu> > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> > > > > > > >> Even better: > > > >> > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > > > > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > > > > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called > "Add" > > > to > > > > add to the page: > > > > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button > > normally) > > > > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) > > > > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the > bottom), > > > > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all > > > existing > > > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to > manage > > > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) > > > > > > > > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the > > > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the > > bottom > > > > is removed. > > > > > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. > > > Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea > > > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the > > > content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I > > > misunderstood. > > > > > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual > > > > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow > > > application > > > > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > > > > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, > > > annotation > > > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them > > > (including > > > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a > > > > seperate checkbox. > > > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > >> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt;gt;: > > > >> > > > >> > So basically, you want: > > > >> > > > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg > > > >> > > > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent(a)massol.net &lt;vincent(a)massol.net > >: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( > guillaume(a)xwiki.com > > > >> (mailto: > > > >> >> guillaume(a)xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a > > suggestion > > > >> that > > > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. > > The > > > >> idea > > > >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and > put > > > the > > > >> >> "Add" > > > >> >> > button in its place. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: > > > >> >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a > menu > > > that > > > >> >> is > > > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition > to > > > >> this, > > > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's > not > > > too > > > >> >> much > > > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the > "Edit" > > > and > > > >> >> "More > > > >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > WDYT? > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the > > Create > > > >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > > > >> >> > > > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: > > > >> >> - confluence: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74… > > > >> >> - jira: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2… > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Thanks > > > >> >> -Vincent > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Guillaume > > > >> >> > ᐧ > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > < > > > >> >> > > > valicac(a)gmail.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > >> >> > > > > me(a)guillaumelerouge.com&gt; > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru > > (Valica) > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > valicac(a)gmail.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > >> >> > > > > guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt; > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru > > Florea > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume > Lerouge > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt; > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > > > >> >> "Louis-Marie" > > > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > > >> >> > > > enygma2002(a)gmail.com > > > >> >> > > > > >: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion > > > >> started > > > >> >> on > > > >> >> > > this > > > >> >> > > > > > > topic, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > but > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people > > > start > > > >> >> being > > > >> >> > > > > confused > > > >> >> > > > > > > and > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo > > is > > > >> >> > > problematic > > > >> >> > > > > IMO > > > >> >> > > > > > > for > > > >> >> > > > > > > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it > adds > > > >> >> > > page-related > > > >> >> > > > > > > entries > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its > > current > > > >> >> location > > > >> >> > > > > (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" > > button > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot > > of > > > >> >> > > livetables. > > > >> >> > > > We > > > >> >> > > > > > > would > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available > > > when we > > > >> >> > > > > instantiate > > > >> >> > > > > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki > > index > > > >> >> page, for > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > user > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the > File > > > >> >> Manager > > > >> >> > > then > > > >> >> > > > :) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicati… > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar > (with > > > >> >> support for > > > >> >> > > > > > custom > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by > > the > > > >> >> > > 'Actions' > > > >> >> > > > > > column > > > >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the > > 'Create' > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at > > least > > > 3 > > > >> >> reasons > > > >> >> > > > why: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference > is > > > that > > > >> >> the > > > >> >> > > > Actions > > > >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we > > didn't > > > >> had > > > >> >> bulk > > > >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > > > >> >> selection > > > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each > > > row). > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the > > "Actions" > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in > > it, > > > and > > > >> >> also > > > >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be > expanded > > > to be > > > >> >> used > > > >> >> > > in > > > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions > can > > be > > > >> >> performed > > > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it > is a > > > >> single > > > >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it > > is > > > >> more > > > >> >> of a > > > >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action > as > > > well > > > >> >> if you > > > >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the > > actions > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a > > checkbox > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way > > to > > > go. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > Eduard > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > Caty > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, > > whereas > > > the > > > >> >> > > > "actions" > > > >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual > > > entries > > > >> >> that > > > >> >> > > > already > > > >> >> > > > > > exist > > > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable > > > >> creator > > > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk > > actions > > > on > > > >> >> pages > > > >> >> > > > such > > > >> >> > > > > as > > > >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > > > Caty > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create > a > > > new > > > >> >> item of > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > same > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > type > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. > Right > > > now > > > >> we > > > >> >> do > > > >> >> > > this > > > >> >> > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > an > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a > > > generic > > > >> >> > > > solution. > > > >> >> > > > > > It's > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > also > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation > > > module > > > >> >> (that we > > > >> >> > > > > don't > > > >> >> > > > > > > > have > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions > doing > > it > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+… > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a > far, > > > the > > > >> >> new > > > >> >> > > > > location > > > >> >> > > > > > > > looks > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as > left-to-right > > > >> >> language > > > >> >> > > > > specific > > > >> >> > > > > > > > brains > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it > > > creates > > > >> >> (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > next > > > >> >> > > > > > to > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of > the > > > >> screen > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right > now > > > to my > > > >> >> mind) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located > > > near > > > >> >> the Edit > > > >> >> > > > > > button, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > even > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. > Because > > > it > > > >> >> groups > > > >> >> > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > most > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > basic > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want > > to > > > >> >> > > contribute: > > > >> >> > > > > > EDIT, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since > > > it's > > > >> >> quite an > > > >> >> > > > > > > important > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color > > > (which > > > >> >> I like > > > >> >> > > > > :)), > > > >> >> > > > > > > it`s > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > hard > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or > do > > > >> >> others see > > > >> >> > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > problem > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > here > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >> devs mailing list > > > >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com) > > > >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com) > > > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> devs mailing list > > > >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) &lt;valicac(a)gmail.com > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu> > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > valicac(a)gmail.com > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru &lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt; > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or > > less > > > > back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" > > button > > > is > > > > now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :) > > > > > > > > Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that > > > awkward > > > > feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a > > > > question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in > > > > practice and what makes sense. > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original > > > Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the > reason > > > some of the things changed: listening to different opinions. > > > > > > One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when > we > > > proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these > > 'concerns' > > > should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of > discussions > > > should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase. > > > > > > > I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as > well > > as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received > > criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very > > busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the > > current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we > are > > actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add > wiki > > option. > > > > > It was always in the initial proposal > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x > and more explicitly in the Menus section > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to add a wiki in those proposals ? > > > > > > > > Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before. We > > used > > > 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, > > > etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users > find > > > it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc. > > > > > > > I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current > discussion > > and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without > > tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should > > look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is > > not academic. > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this > > change > > > because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are > > > influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to > our > > > problems. > > > > > > If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not > the > > > best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the > > > change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing > > could > > > give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test > > > this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change > > > because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will > > > repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe > > > testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more > skins > > > or changed them more often). > > > > > > > I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it > > mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end > user, > > surely a source of confusion. > > > > Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great > > job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we > do. I > > know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but > > that's life :) > > > > > :) > > Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related > > > > entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I > > > never > > > > did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not > > > > recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes > > either, > > > > for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly > > > with > > > > the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts > > in > > > > the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt; > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > Delhumeau > > < > > > > > > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> > > > > > > > > > > >> Even better: > > > > > >> > > > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called > > > "Add" > > > > > to > > > > > > add to the page: > > > > > > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button > > > > normally) > > > > > > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) > > > > > > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the > > > bottom), > > > > > > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all > > > > > existing > > > > > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to > > > manage > > > > > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the > > > > > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to > the > > > > bottom > > > > > > is removed. > > > > > > > > > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. > > > > > Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea > > > > > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the > > > > > content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I > > > > > misunderstood. > > > > > > > > > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual > > > > > > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow > > > > > application > > > > > > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, > > > > > annotation > > > > > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them > > > > > (including > > > > > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to > click a > > > > > > seperate checkbox. > > > > > > > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > > > >> gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt;gt;: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > So basically, you want: > > > > > >> > > > > > > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent(a)massol.net < > > vincent(a)massol.net > > > >: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( > > > guillaume(a)xwiki.com > > > > > >> (mailto: > > > > > >> >> guillaume(a)xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > Hi, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a > > > > suggestion > > > > > >> that > > > > > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add > > button. > > > > The > > > > > >> idea > > > > > >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, > and > > > put > > > > > the > > > > > >> >> "Add" > > > > > >> >> > button in its place. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: > > > > > >> >> > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in > a > > > menu > > > > > that > > > > > >> >> is > > > > > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In > > addition > > > to > > > > > >> this, > > > > > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, > it's > > > not > > > > > too > > > > > >> >> much > > > > > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the > > > "Edit" > > > > > and > > > > > >> >> "More > > > > > >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > WDYT? > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of > the > > > > Create > > > > > >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to > me). > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: > > > > > >> >> - confluence: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74… > > > > > >> >> - jira: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2… > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> Thanks > > > > > >> >> -Vincent > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > Guillaume > > > > > >> >> > ᐧ > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Hi, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru > > (Valica) > > > < > > > > > >> >> > > > valicac(a)gmail.com> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > >> >> > > > > me(a)guillaumelerouge.com&gt; > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru > > > > (Valica) > > > > > < > > > > > >> >> > > > > > valicac(a)gmail.com> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume > Lerouge > > < > > > > > >> >> > > > > guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt; > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru > > > > Florea > > > > > < > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume > > > Lerouge > > > > < > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > guillaume(a)xwiki.com&gt; > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > > > > > >> >> "Louis-Marie" > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > > > > >> >> > > > enygma2002(a)gmail.com > > > > > >> >> > > > > >: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a > > discussion > > > > > >> started > > > > > >> >> on > > > > > >> >> > > this > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > topic, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > but > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see > > people > > > > > start > > > > > >> >> being > > > > > >> >> > > > > confused > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > and > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be > asked. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in > > Flamingo > > > > is > > > > > >> >> > > problematic > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > for > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > a > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that > it > > > adds > > > > > >> >> > > page-related > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > entries > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its > > > > current > > > > > >> >> location > > > > > >> >> > > > > (i.e. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > in > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > the > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new > Entry" > > > > button > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a > > lot > > > > of > > > > > >> >> > > livetables. > > > > > >> >> > > > We > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > would > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be > > available > > > > > when we > > > > > >> >> > > > > instantiate > > > > > >> >> > > > > > a > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the > wiki > > > > index > > > > > >> >> page, for > > > > > >> >> > > > the > > > > > >> >> > > > > > user > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from > the > > > File > > > > > >> >> Manager > > > > > >> >> > > then > > > > > >> >> > > > :) > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicati… > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar > > > (with > > > > > >> >> support for > > > > > >> >> > > > > > custom > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you > think? > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already > covered > > by > > > > the > > > > > >> >> > > 'Actions' > > > > > >> >> > > > > > column > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the > > > > 'Create' > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see > at > > > > least > > > > > 3 > > > > > >> >> reasons > > > > > >> >> > > > why: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only > difference > > > is > > > > > that > > > > > >> >> the > > > > > >> >> > > > Actions > > > > > >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because > we > > > > didn't > > > > > >> had > > > > > >> >> bulk > > > > > >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple > > entity > > > > > >> >> selection > > > > > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on > > each > > > > > row). > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the > > > > "Actions" > > > > > >> >> column > > > > > >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes > > in > > > > it, > > > > > and > > > > > >> >> also > > > > > >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be > > > expanded > > > > > to be > > > > > >> >> used > > > > > >> >> > > in > > > > > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all > operations/actions > > > can > > > > be > > > > > >> >> performed > > > > > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that > it > > > is a > > > > > >> single > > > > > >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action > since > > it > > > > is > > > > > >> more > > > > > >> >> of a > > > > > >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk > > action > > > as > > > > > well > > > > > >> >> if you > > > > > >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the > > > > actions > > > > > >> >> column > > > > > >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a > > > > checkbox > > > > > >> >> column > > > > > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right > > way > > > > to > > > > > go. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > > > > > >> >> > > Eduard > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, > > > > > >> >> > > > > Caty > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, > > > > whereas > > > > > the > > > > > >> >> > > > "actions" > > > > > >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to > individual > > > > > entries > > > > > >> >> that > > > > > >> >> > > > already > > > > > >> >> > > > > > exist > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the > > livetable > > > > > >> creator > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk > > > > actions > > > > > on > > > > > >> >> pages > > > > > >> >> > > > such > > > > > >> >> > > > > as > > > > > >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Caty > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user > > create > > > a > > > > > new > > > > > >> >> item of > > > > > >> >> > > > the > > > > > >> >> > > > > > same > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > type > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. > > > Right > > > > > now > > > > > >> we > > > > > >> >> do > > > > > >> >> > > this > > > > > >> >> > > > > in > > > > > >> >> > > > > > an > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to > have > > a > > > > > generic > > > > > >> >> > > > solution. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > It's > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > also > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name > generation > > > > > module > > > > > >> >> (that we > > > > > >> >> > > > > don't > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > have > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > in > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions > > > doing > > > > it > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+… > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from > a > > > far, > > > > > the > > > > > >> >> new > > > > > >> >> > > > > location > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > looks > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as > > > left-to-right > > > > > >> >> language > > > > > >> >> > > > > specific > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > brains > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements > > it > > > > > creates > > > > > >> >> (i.e. > > > > > >> >> > > > next > > > > > >> >> > > > > > to > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle > of > > > the > > > > > >> screen > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come > right > > > now > > > > > to my > > > > > >> >> mind) > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is > > located > > > > > near > > > > > >> >> the Edit > > > > > >> >> > > > > > button, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > even > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. > > > Because > > > > > it > > > > > >> >> groups > > > > > >> >> > > the > > > > > >> >> > > > > > most > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > basic > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you > > want > > > > to > > > > > >> >> > > contribute: > > > > > >> >> > > > > > EDIT, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, > > since > > > > > it's > > > > > >> >> quite an > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > important > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green > > color > > > > > (which > > > > > >> >> I like > > > > > >> >> > > > > :)), > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > it`s > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > hard > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, > > or > > > do > > > > > >> >> others see > > > > > >> >> > > a > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > problem > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > here > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > > > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> >> devs mailing list > > > > > >> >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > > > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > -- > > > > > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com) > > > > > >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > > > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com) > > > > > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > > > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> devs mailing list > > > > > >> devs(a)xwiki.org > > > > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Denis Gervalle > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs(a)xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs(a)xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Eduard Moraru &lt;enygma2002(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Ok, let keep the button in place in this thread, and move it in the other one. How funny you are :) I think, that I have clearly agree on that. Moreover, the proposal was fine for me (without the Add Wiki option), and this is you that initiate a discussion, after the fact, about the position of that button, isn't it ? Have I blame anyone in particular, I just blame all of us for not taking enough care to proposals, and I also found us some excuse. What is wrong with that ? -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO

Hi, The Add - Wiki option was not in the proposal, since in that version Wikis were not enabled by default. The proposal just list the 'Add' entries available for that particular XE version. But as long as you have in a menu the option to create pages and spaces, is IMO implicit to also be able to create the wiki type entities, from consistency point of view. When we added Wikis by default, we had a dedicated proposal for the content of the 'Add' menu here http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements Thanks, Caty On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 2:59 AM, Denis Gervalle &lt;dgl(a)softec.lu&gt; wrote:

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: I am only talking about adding here, not about viewing. Viewing is already provided either at the bottom or on a separate page, so the bottom get optional. -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO

  On 1 Oct 2014 at 11:05:17, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com(mailto:guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: Yes, FTR: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/37225b35-d635-43e1-b236-df47ce111bc1… Thanks -Vincent

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau(a)xwiki.com&gt; wrote: I`m sorry, but that does not make sense to me. Actually I have found myself quite often almost clicking ADD when I wanted to perform an operation on the current document, like Edit or something from More Actions. At least if we`d group actions related to the current document somehow, but in no ways is it correct from my POV to have: 1 action for the current document, 1 action *not* for the current document and then "more actions" *for the current document*. It's like an usability "roller coaster". One not so great solution for the "roller coaster" problem would be to have the Add button first in the list. At least the focus would shift only once. Thanks, Eduard